CKF Application Clips.

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
1

Hi folks,

Just like Robert (mantis108) said in “What’s your poison” thread, I am actually more into applications and fighting side of CFK.

I love forms but they’re means to an end; learning to fight.

So I am starting this thread to share some applications of CKF.

This first clip is very badly done; took it after class under poor lighting with a simple digicam.

Still, I hope to get the ball rolling here.

You see me do a basic Ancestral Crane technique here.

My student throws a right which I deflect with my right palm. My left hand slices his throat and ending with a 2 hand butterfly push. Something like Wing Chun’s “Bo Pai Shou” maybe.

Regards.

http://media.putfile.com/Ancestral-Crane-technique

2

Applications…

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the clip. Yeah, it’s a bit short (too short really because you are countering quick there) and too dark. I can barely make out the images. But it seems to be a pretty interesting move. I have always wonder how different styles use “Bo Pai Shou”

Please keep 'em coming and I hope others with follow the lead in sharing as well. :slight_smile:

Warm regards

Robert

3

Hi Robert,

My apology for the bad quality of that clip.

Will redo, I promise.

Well, it was late, after my class (11 pm) and also the first time working with a digicam.

Hahaha, we were fumbling with the camera before shooting. Actually shot a few sequences but the rest came out as silhouettes hahaha but hey I am only a landscaper… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, hoping that more would share their versions of “Bo Pa Shou”.

This is a recurring technique in all the Cranes I’ve encountered. Also a very important technique in Tai Zhu, Wuzhu, Wing Chun and many Karates.

So the concept that Karate borrowed from Southern Fukien Boxing is not that unbelievable.

You know what I would love to see us sharing? Chin-Na techniques embedded in the various CKF systems. I know Mantis has got very intricate Chin-Na and in some Wing Chun that I see, every sequence ends with a Chin-Na locking.

I will be posting a couple of White Crane Chin-Na next…. Better quality I promise.

In the meantime, back to my frangipanis, calatheas, musacae………

Regards.:slight_smile:

4

Nope, not posting new clips but a couple of pics.

Pic 1 – This is taken during filming of a CKF documentary last year. The film crew is from New York.

Pic 2 – Me taking one of my students through “Flying Crane” before actual shoot.

Reason for posting these pics; man, I wish I got that kind of filming gears at my disposal.

Pic3 – This pic has got nothing at all to do with fighting. My wife (her royal highness) insisted that I show something other than Kung Fu.
So, there you go; a recent pond garden that we built here in Kuching.

So folks, if any of you is planning to move to Sarawak and need a garden done, call me or else…….

Regards.

5

Okay, clearer clips.

#1 – The same Ancestral Crane “Butterfly Palm” clip posted earlier. Personally, I think the key difference between how I do this and say, Wing Chun, is that I “whip” more. Especially the slicing to the throat action…

#2 – This is a Chin-Na technique taken from the 2nd Ancestral Crane. The technique is called “Fisherman Seizes Crane”.

#3 – This is a elbow-break technique taken out of Whooping Crane entry “SanJin” form.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBiaWfUGKys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGe8ZXa0hg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxDxNPaTgM

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Hi Eric,

First and foremost, thank you for sharing these wonderful clips. I have say your crane hands are very fluid and crisp. I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters…

#2 – This is a Chin-Na technique taken from the 2nd Ancestral Crane. The technique is called “Fisherman Seizes Crane”.

I definitely like this one. Personally, I would follow through with a takedown into crucifix hold.

[quote#3 – This is a elbow-break technique taken out of Whooping Crane entry “SanJin” form.

An interesting arm drag/elbow-break. Thanks and please keep 'em coming. :slight_smile:

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBiaWfUGKys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGe8ZXa0hg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxDxNPaTgM[/QUOTE]

Warm regrads

Robert

7

Hi Robert and all,

I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters…

In the 2 men drill for the form where this technique is extracted, the Butterfly Palm flow into a shoulder butt sort of like Tai Chis Kao

The clip doesnt show this clearly but this technique is about 4th door fighting. Avoiding straight line collision and moving off angle but hitting on the way out; in this case the knife-hand to the throat. If I move to the opposite side of the opponent, I will do a hammer fist to the kidney region before the palms or the shoulder butting.

Whats a Crucifix hold? Hope its not something that Madonna is doing in her live performances hahaha
Actually the coup de grace here is a downward elbow to the face.

The last technique is not so much a drag and break. Its more 2 opposing forces acting on the other guys elbow.

If you bring your speaker volume up a little, you actually hear the little swooshing sound when my right hand goes backward.

And when we do the solo form, every time we come to this technique, my late Sifu would turn the other way and insist on hearing this swooshing.

You dont proceed until you get this sound.

So maybe Whooping Crane is not just Calling Crane but noises generated when you flutter your Wing Hands.

Or maybe it just the Carlsberghahahaha

But seriously, I am getting some of my students to do a couple of forms for you this weekend.

  • the Weito form - I only teach one short Weito form. Typical Northern form with “iron broom sweeping” to “Tornado kick”…

  • I will mail you a couple of versions of Babulien for your study. You really want to see historical connection, you got to see the old stuffs. The newer versions has deviated too much from the original core of Whooping Crane principles making it murky for studies.

Back to the Carlsberg.

Regards.

8

Hi Eric,

[QUOTE=Eric Ling]Hi Robert and all,

“I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters…”

In the 2 men drill for the form where this technique is extracted, the “Butterfly Palm” flow into a “shoulder butt” sort of like Tai Chi’s “Kao”

Right, great move. :slight_smile:

[quote]The clip doesn’t show this clearly but this technique is about “4th door” fighting. Avoiding straight line collision and moving off angle but hitting on the way out; in this case the knife-hand to the throat. If I move to the opposite side of the opponent, I will do a hammer fist to the kidney region before the palms or the shoulder butting.

I see and I understand where you are coming from with this move. BTW, the opposite side move that you mention is similar to the Lung Ying’s Lam Da or Bak Mei’s Bui Tsui. But the follow up of that usually would be Chung Tsui (kind of an upper cut).

What’s a “Crucifix” hold? Hope it’s not something that Madonna is doing in her live performances hahaha…

Well, she got the holy Vatican ticking with the “Crucifix”. :smiley: But then I guess I would get the “religious” Kung Fu Men all ticking with the grappling esque takedown and submission Crucifix hold. lol… Seriously, from the position that you are in you simply lock up his upper arms (from the biceps’ side) with your upper arms. His head would be under your right armpit in this case. It is then a matter of pulling him forwards towards the ground and rotate him enroute to the ground. He would be landing face up and upon landing you would do a hip switch so that your right hip is close to the ground thus allow your full body weight aganist his neck joint. This way you are almost back to back with him. This is quite dangerous as a neck crank (tremendous pressure on his neck) so it is important to practice carefully and slowly at first.

Actually the “coup de grace” here is a downward elbow to the face.

Right elbow to the head? Good one for sure. Thanks

The last technique is not so much a “drag” and break. It’s more 2 opposing forces acting on the other guys elbow.

I hear you. Arm drag is kind of a MMA/BJJ lingo just to keep the interest of those who thinks that TCMA didn’t have all those “modern day” techniques. It is the same reason why I mentioned the crucifix hold.

If you bring your speaker volume up a little, you actually hear the little “swooshing” sound when my right hand goes backward.

And when we do the solo form, every time we come to this technique, my late Sifu would turn the other way and insist on hearing this swooshing.

You don’t proceed until you get this sound.

Nice and thanks for sharing the tip. :slight_smile:

So maybe “Whooping Crane” is not just “Calling Crane” but noises generated when you flutter your “Wing Hands”.

Awesome.

Or maybe it just the Carlsberg…hahahaha

here, here. :smiley:

But seriously, I am getting some of my students to do a couple of forms for you this weekend.

  • the Weito form - I only teach one short Weito form. Typical Northern form with “iron broom sweeping” to “Tornado kick”…

  • I will mail you a couple of versions of Babulien for your study. You really want to see historical connection, you got to see the old stuffs. The newer versions has deviated too much from the original core of Whooping Crane principles making it murky for studies.

Back to the Carlsberg.

Wow, thank you, my friend. I am looking forward to these stuff for sure! Now, I am all excited. Thanks. :smiley:

Warm regards

Robert

9

Robert,

Check your email; the Crane has landed.

Regards.

10

Hi Robert and all,

Got some of my students to do some forms today for you; lousy day for shooting though.

Indoor lighting is too dim and it’s hazy out today because of the fires in Kalimantan (Indonesia) next door. They are clearing jungles by burning for agriculture and the air condition is considered “hazardous”

Still, the kung fu goes on…..

Clip #1 – This is LuiHe Weito 1st Road form. Learned this many years ago and these days I teach this Northern form to give my students a more rounded training program.

Clip #2 – WuZhu “Character 10 Sanchiem”. I do many Sanchiems and this is one of them.

Aaaarrrhhhhh, it’s HAZY…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTNQ__0rZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzs4C6ZWJcg

11

Cool clips. Thanks!

BTW what are chinese characters for “weito”?

12

A word on Weituo

The Chinese characters for “Weito” or the proper spelling in Mandarin Pingyin is “Weituo” are:

  • Liu He Wei Tuo Men (6 Harmonie Guardian Warrior Wei Tuo Gate)

Here are some info regarding that I wrote awhile ago:

Found some background info on Weito, who is one of the Guardian Warriors of the Buddhist faith. It would seem that he is among one of the most important one too.

first a link for the image of him:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/wei_to.htm

The description of him:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/weito-txt.htm

The most interesting thing about this handsome looking General is that he might be the Chinese adaptation of Skanda, one of the sons of Siva whom might have been the romantic version of

Drum rolls…

ALEXANDER THE GREAT!

BTW, father and son in Hinduism quite often are regarded as one entity. So Siva and Skanda share some similar characteristics.

Here’s an article about it

http://murugan.org/research/gopalapillai.htm

Now with all these info. it is not far fatch, when we look at the 7th Road of 18 Lohan, to see the deliberate spiritual design of the form IMHO.

Robert

Mantis108

13

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the clips. The Luihe Weituo is very interesting. Definitely a lot of familiar “Northern component.” I can see why this is taught as the basic form. There are indeed a lot of moves that are put to use the basics of northern styles. Good form. Do you teach more of these?

The Wuzhu (Five Ancestors) Character 10 Sanchiem is also very interesting. The double punch down in the opening is reminiscent of Lung Ying’s opennng move.

Warm regards

Robert

14

Hi Robert and all,

No, I don’t teach other Weito form; I can’t remember hahaha…..must be getting old. Nope not 64 but 47 going 48.

I learned a grand total of 4 forms from Lien Siok and like I said; not the nicest Sifu I know. Training with him was really quite stressful and when you are 19 going 20, that’s not the stress you need.

The other 3 forms are really very complicated in the Northern sense. A familiar concept like “3 techniques and not touching ground” becomes very evident. In Hakka you say “hands out stay out”. In Northern styles, the legs are expected to do 3 kicks in various combos. That’s the 3 and not touching ground idea.

Wuzhu, like TaiZhu, sees much of the “father goes son follows” 2 handed techniques.
2 straight punches is really the most basic manifestation of this principle.

Wuzhu has quite a repertoire of these 2 handed techniques.

Hendrix, if you are reading this, please comment; I was having a very “intense” discussion with Sifu Ku (Chu Gar Wing Chun) in Singapore a while back.

He said that one of the definitive Chu Gar attributes is this 2 handed execution either both attacks or block/attack done in one space. Operative word is “one space”.

He went to emphasize this by rolling off, in his style of, Cantonese which I find difficult to understand (or again, blame it on the Carlsberg)….

I should be posting a couple more of Wuzhu forms in the next few days. Just like in White Crane, after you’re done with the Sanchins, you go to your “Si Men” or “4 doors”.

Please note that this is GM Kan Teck Guan’s lineage paradigm and forms.

GM Kan is renowned as a Wuzhu GM but very interestingly, he is also fondly remembered as a Master of “Fukien Eng Choon White Crane”.

Most of the written works he left behind revolves around Eng Choon White Crane.

And in my old Fuzhou White Crane school’s “wall of fame”, GM Kan’s photo portrait is hung very prominently.

And knowing my Fuzhou elders and their attitudes and to see a “Fukien” Master’s picture on that wall must mean something significant.

Personally, I have read many of GM Kan’s work and I have nothing but the highest of respect for him.

For those of you not familiar with the Late GM Kan, a pic…….

Regards.

15

Hi Eric,

No, I don’t teach other Weito form; I can’t remember hahaha…..must be getting old. Nope not 64 but 47 going 48. ---------E

Hahaha, same here -1.

.

Hendrix, if you are reading this, please comment; I was having a very “intense” discussion with Sifu Ku (Chu Gar Wing Chun) in Singapore a while back.

He said that one of the definitive Chu Gar attributes is this 2 handed execution either both attacks or block/attack done in one space. Operative word is “one space”.

He went to emphasize this by rolling off, in his style of, Cantonese which I find difficult to understand (or again, blame it on the Carlsberg)…. —E

Hahaha, must be intense. :smiley:

could you please elaborate what is the "rolling off " he showed ? so that I can comment more precisely? Thanks.

peace

I

16

Thanks for the info. :slight_smile:
I searched for it in “Zhonghua wushu shiyong baike” and found an entry for . Probably the same thing. You may take a look at the attached photos (don’t have a scanner). Maybe you’ll find something interesting for you.

17

Thanks for the weito scan photo.

Reading the weito1 scanning photo raise a question in my mind — Does anyone has trained with the type of description on breathing and …

IMHHO, this stuffs is not that nature at all. It seems forcefull breathing from inhale and exhale description. Thus, I wonder how is it going to generate Zhen Qi. It seems it is a hard bow art that using compressing, or even stop breathing at some points …etc instead of the Dao mimic Nature principle.

But those are just my view. I can be wrong. Care to discuss?

18

Weituo Liuhe …

Hi Taaigihk, Hendrik and All,

Thank you for the scan. I would think it’s the same style we are talking about here. Personally, I wouldn’t take this type of book’s info seriously. It’s far too brief and generic to form an opinion on any style.

Having said that there’s some honesty about what is disclosed in the description.

What it basically wanted to convey IMHO is the importance of the faculty of eyes (Yan Fa), which is something very important to the traditional styles. It conveys the idea of Wu Gan (martial feeling) as well as focus of movements. Here it used the analogy of battle field commands where the eyes are compared to the colors which signal the troops to perform designated tasks. The troops go where the colors go. But this analogy is kind of a clinche.

As for the six harmony concept. It’s even more generic. But then it does differs from the so-called internal style’s six harmony. The Gong training exercises named are also quite common in most other styles of Kung Fu. So it is not surprising to find that the breathing is rather forceful in nature. But this doesn’t necessarily say that it is an “external” style.

Personally, all styles of Kung Fu as long as it has solid traditional background, they will be both internal and external (yin and yang as one) at the same time. The arguement about which is internal and which is not is divisive and counter productive. It is a marketing plot that get out of control. We should not perpetuate that as serious martial artists.

Just a thought.

Regards

Mantis108

19

Hi everybody,

Sunday evening should be sleeping but hey just got back from teaching and the body/mind is still going..

Hendrik, you misunderstood me. I meant he was talking in his Cantonese that I am not used to.

Anyway, you know Master Ku; his hands will do most, if not all, the talking. His 2 handed techniques are really something. Ignorantly, I dont normally associate this form with Wing Chun; high-low straight punch, po pai shou, double shearing hands maybe..

Robert, its interesting that you wrote Weito inspired 7th road Lohan.and taaigihk, thanks for those photos. I got the same book but I never bothered to go deep.

Weito, the little that I know, is supposedly a very old Northern style; quite apparently so. Typical Northern gestures and flavors and applications.

The old part is not a hunch.

Some postures could be forerunners of some later days arts.

Take the opening sequence for instance, after the forward palm strike, the right hand is pulled back and the body goes into a twist stance and the left hand does a punch.

This, I believe, is the classical form of fist under elbow in Tai Chi.

From this posture, the leap and 2 downward punches with fists resting the thighs.

In Weito, this is Wushong Beating Tiger. I think 7 Stars do a technique almost akin to this except that in 7 Star, the protruding leg is a floor slide kick.

Well anyhow, if only I had been closer to my Weito teacher, I might have got a lot more out of him; history, principles blah blah blah.

Well, certain things are not meant to be.

Got 2 more clips here to share.

Both from Wuzhu and theyre intermediate level forms.

Clip 1: Da Mei Hwa or Big Plum Blossom. There is also a small version in the syllabus.

Clip 2: Poisonous Snake Obstructing Path. SPM players should find the continuous hand sequences interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE1SEgpcRSs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnA32dap4Lw

Regards.

20

Eric,

Thanks for the details. hahaha.

You guys must be having a great time.

Yup, the kuen kuit said " Kang Sau up and down differentiate Yin and Yang"

"double push hand deflect force in balance manner "… all the two arms stuffs…

there are two arms against one arm, one arm against two arms…

Peace
Hendrik