Can TCMA and Christianity mix?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
101

[QUOTE=bawang;1275413]regardless of whatever religion or cultural or political belief, the most important thing in life is to produce offpring and continue your genes. when you realize that you neither hate or love religion.

whether tcma and chrsitianity can mix is a pointless question because there are almost no real christians. most christians these days fornicate before marriage and support gays. inhaling demonic spirits and moral implications of burning incence to oriental action figures is the least of their worries.

when you dont even know how to pronounce the name of your own god, worrying about compatibility with exotic calisthetics is moot.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree 100% with all of that! A lot of people just stick with whatever faith they grew up with and never question anything. For instance, I do not believe I have to go through a priest for anything “holy.” I can just pray for myself and be diligent, knowing I try my best in my own way. No one ever questions “the Church” or the clergy, etc. For instance, if we are not Christian or whatever, and we do not pay taxes to these people, then we are godless heathens and not even human. (less than human.) That was the Inquisition in the Mediterranian/Europe, and the witch trials, and that was the colonial attitude in the America’s, Africa’s, Asia, Macro-nesia, etc. Now it is like everything is somehow okay and the Pope is just some nice old man, and tourists who flock to the Vatican try to touch him thinking he will heal them like Jesus or something, but then the bodyguards tackle the person(s) to the ground for trying to touch the Pope- okay, sure- if that’s “holy” I must be missing something.

Don’t get me wrong though, I am not a Bible-basher, in fact I appreciate history and can appreciate the Bible. “neither hate or love religion.” Well said.

And I would also add that there are a lot of rabbi’s, preachers, and priests who do wonderful things for their communities throughout the world. I am not bashing anyone’s religion or faith or the Bible, I just want to make that clear.

102

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1275390]It is a human concept. Perpetuated by humans.
A trinity concept isn’t that hard to get though. It’s a common thread in a lot of religions.

Heaven> Earth> Man for instance.

1>2>3>10,000

Vishnu/Bramha/Siva

Jesus/God/ The Holy Spirit

and so on it goes.

It can’t be reconciled because it demands faith. It has nothing at all to do with reason, logic or rationale.[/QUOTE]

The only difference is the “oneness” of the Trinity doctrine.
Honestly I don’t find it that hard to understand myself BUT I never came at it with any preconceived notions of what I thought it meant…

103

[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1275395]This is where Christianity adopted a trinitarian doctrine. The word “trinity” is not in the Bible.[/QUOTE]

Not correct at all, you will not find anything like the CORRECT Trinity doctrine anywhere other than Christianity.
You may find views that APPEAR similar, but only on the surface.

104

[QUOTE=MarathonTmatt;1275400]Question for people who are more read up on the Bible than I am:

Somewhere in the New Testament there is a quote that goes something like this:

Jesus said: “I and My Father are One.”

How can this be interpreted? Does it mean that Jesus was a “Man of God”, thus close to “His Father”, therefore becoming as One, or does it mean that Jesus “was/is God.” Also, do these concepts relate to the holy trinity at all?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

I have a masters in Theological studies, so take this for what it is worth:
You can NOT understand a faith from ONE passage NOR can you understand it if you come at it from preconceived notions.

When Jesus said that, WHO did He say it to and WHEN and HOW would THEY have taken it?
Clue: They tried to stone him because He was making himself equal with God.

105

[QUOTE=bawang;1275405]emperor constantine basically flipped a coin and decided to suppport trinity over arianism to form a united church. the trinity is a joke.[/QUOTE]

That is SO fare off dude, honestly.
That is probably one of the silliest notions that opponents of Christianity ever came up with.
Constantine simply told the council to “make a decision” on it and according to some sources, He may have preferred the Arian view to be the official view because it would have worked out better for him as Emperor.

106

Well, not to argue too much, but there is some evidence that the Emperor did prefer some interpretations and put some pressure towards those

107

There seems to be a lot of “mis-informed mainstream” critique of Christianity here, understandably so since there is such a “vocal” online critique of it so readily available.
I would ask people that IF they truly wanna know the truth, to research from BOTH sides of the argument and NOT just take the side that they prefer to be correct.

Any good Christian apologetic site can answer all these “supposed issues” that really don’t amount to anything more than speculation and mis-information".

But, to each their own.

108

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1275440]Well, not to argue too much, but there is some evidence that the Emperor did prefer some interpretations and put some pressure towards those[/QUOTE]

Correct and we will probably find that there is enough “opinion” on the matter to equally weight BOTH sides of the argument.
Suffice to say that his SON was far more “direct”, LOL !

109

It isn’t a stretch to imagine that politics played a role. The Roman empire had DECIMATED Israel over religious zealotry. It regulated religious life, required sacrifices to the emperor under pagan times. The emperor wanted a unified empire, he didn’t want a bunch of monks constantly arguing over orthodoxy and hearsay. And he didn’t have much background and probably did not really completely understand some of the points being argued…

110

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1275444]It isn’t a stretch to imagine that politics played a role. The Roman empire had DECIMATED Israel over religious zealotry. It regulated religious life, required sacrifices to the emperor under pagan times. The emperor wanted a unified empire, he didn’t want a bunch of monks constantly arguing over orthodoxy and hearsay. And he didn’t have much background and probably did not really completely understand some of the points being argued…[/QUOTE]

100% correct, he wanted peace and stability in a religion that he converted to because he thought it would bring peace and stability ( his much publicized vision aside).

His nephew Julian on the other hand, had different ideas.

111

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1275410]
2. There is no “Nazareth”… [/QUOTE]

This is false and I can prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyXz6eMCj2k&list=PL19A5FC16BE4D51DA

112

[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1275464]This is false and I can prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyXz6eMCj2k&list=PL19A5FC16BE4D51DA[/QUOTE]

ah, but

Now you’re messin’ with a…

113

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1275436]The only difference is the “oneness” of the Trinity doctrine.
Honestly I don’t find it that hard to understand myself BUT I never came at it with any preconceived notions of what I thought it meant…[/QUOTE]

With or without preconceived notions, if you ponder on this concept, it should be obvious that there is an inconceivable mystery to it in the midst of what may sound as easy as one two three. I.e. “for Jesus did not think that equality with God is something that could be grasped”. Yet at the same time, “I and the Father are one”. Obviously hierarchy is something man uses to abuse other people. Some like to build god images with this hierarchy and duplicate it with words like clergy and laity.

Theological studies, apologetics, hermeneutics, exegesis, and all the other greek bla bla bla can go to hell in a hand basket. What Good are we doing?? If you can manage to abstain or explain away from all sin for your whole life will God say to you, “well done, you didnt screw anything up. Thats just what i have been looking for this whole time. Some body who has never done any wrong. Please, come sit next to me and we can condescend to the rest of all creation.”

Why did God call David a man after his own heart even through all he did. Why Moses, why Gideon, why…
Conversely, what about the Pharisees? They were masters of theological persuits, rhetoric, and kept themselves legally pure. According to Jesus, what did God feel about them? Refer to Matthew 23.

Better to concern yourself with doing good to widows and orphans rather than memorize the human cannon of modern christian lingo and end up completely deaf to the voice of God in the same way the Teachers of the law did. That should be a major concern for anyone who delves into the scripture.
2 Corinthians 3:14-15 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
:::::::
Regarding the otigional post:
If you take the bible as a whole, it is easy to see a few of the major things that God gets feisty about and has punished people for.

  1. When people who he helps turn to other ways, idols, gods or mix them into His way-- this is basically adultery, and a real slap in the face to the one who did so much for you.
  2. When people oppress/abuse other people, especially ones who cant do anything about it. (War and battle is a different idea)
  3. When people do things that will lead to a destruction of their own community ( this is part of the summary of the law and the prophets) - things like adultery, theft, complete disregard of the wisdom of elders(parents can remove themselves from that place), etc…

Bawang is right about having bigger problems than burning incense to asian action figures. Not having any good to offer the world - any salt if you will-- is a more up front issue. If you have no salt, light, good, what does it matter who you “worship”

114

Ok, I found this helpful, but I am still a bit confused.

So, is it something like this; St. Augustine says the mind is an image of the trinity, with its Memory, understanding, will. I suppose this is not precisely the same type of trinity but an analogy to help make this concept comprehendible.

MemoryUnderstandingWill

.And hence these three are one, in that they are one life, one mind, one essence; and whatever else they are severally called in respect to themselves, they are called also together, not plurally, but in the singular number. But they are three, in that wherein they are mutually referred to each other; and if they were not equal, and this not only each to each, but also each to all, they certainly could not mutually contain each other; for not only is each contained by each, but also all by each. For I remember that I have memory and understanding, and will; and I understand that I understand, and will, and remember; and I will that I will, and remember, and understand; and I remember together my whole memory, and understanding, and will. For that of my memory which I do not remember, is not in my memory; and nothing is so much in the memory as memory itself. Therefore I remember the whole memory. Also, whatever I understand I know that I understand, and I know that I will whatever I will; but whatever I know I remember. Therefore I remember the whole of my understanding, and the whole of my will. Likewise, when I understand these three things, I understand them together as whole. For there is none of things intelligible which I do not understand, except what I do not know; but what I do not know, I neither remember, nor will. Therefore, whatever of things intelligible I do not understand, it follows also that I neither remember nor will. And whatever of things intelligible I remember and will, it follows that I understand. My will also embraces my whole understanding and my whole memory while I use the whole that I understand and remember. And, therefore, while all are mutually comprehended by each, and as wholes, each as a whole is equal to each as a whole, and each as a whole at the same time to all as wholes; and these three are one, one life, one mind, one essence. — St. Augustine De Trinitate (c.400 A.D)

And so in this way I can kind of begin to think about how Father—Son—Spirit are simultaneously one and yet distinct. Since all of us can think about memory-will-understanding separately and yet they can only really act together.

Is this a reasonable way to think about the trinity?

115

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1275438]I have a masters in Theological studies

[/QUOTE]

oh! I just noticed this! No wonder you have such great info on this :smiley:

116

[QUOTE=Pipefighter;1275466]
Theological studies, apologetics, hermeneutics, exegesis, and all the other greek bla bla bla can go to hell in a hand basket. What Good are we doing?? [/QUOTE]

You and I could probably get along…

117

[QUOTE=Pipefighter;1275466]If you have no salt, light, good, what does it matter who you “worship”[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly.

118

turkey is a good example of the transience and vanity of religion. the people of that region must have switched language and gods about 4 or 5 times.

119

with all the things that the conquerers have done, they should hope that their god does not exist.

120

normal people dont force their religion on their students. i have never seen kung fu teacher force religion on their students, except chinatown bitter old cantonese doods with no wife.