Those guys you see doing all the travelling and shows, do you think they can fight? Can they fight well? Is their training effective?
The same as “Can the seals performing in the circus hunt for fish?..”
Some maybe…Some others could be too lasy! 
red5angel-
You are either a really dumb guy or a really good troll.
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
[B]red5angel-
You are either a really dumb guy or a really good troll. [/B]
I think that’s a little harsh - it is a pretty valid question.
I’d say some. Depends on whom we’re comparing them to, lol.
red5 is the most bestest troll ever.
I dont think they can fight, but they have good attributes.
They can and do drink. I drank with several of them last december at the Nugget here in Reno.
Yeah, they’re not monks.
The guys from the shows are not real monks most of the time. They are students from the surrounding schools. There are thousands of students enrolled in the Denfeng schools, and the better ones are invited to join the traveling shows. We talk about this issue quite a bit in the Shaolin forum.
You might be surprised to learn that, according the Gene, some of the monks take TKD in order to compete.
fu-Pow, its a serious question, now go learn to socialize properly, my suggestion is do it off the internet with real people.
Yenhoi, you drank with them? Did you get a feeling for their actuall fighting ability?
Has anyone else come into contact with them on a personal level to confirm whether they can or cannot fight. I’m not going to assume because they don’t study BJJ or Muy thai that they cannot fight
R5,
Search the Shaolin forum. People there have varying levels of experience with these students, including Gene. The issue of fighting has been discussed many times.
Most of the “monks” aren’t even monks: posing on top of tombs, ect.
We had a shoalin monk visit our school … he through his prayer beads in the corner, then got a beat down from my teacher.
He expressed some crazy notion that before a fight you should sike yourself up by staring into the other’s eyes and repeating to yourself, “I am not afraid. I am not afraid.”:rolleyes:
Sounds like somebody’s afraid to me:)
I would never label a whole group, but from what I have seen they have evolved away from the martial and towards the marketable. Every group has a few fighters though, even the local little league.
alright guys, I know they aren’t “real” monks for whatever that means, however there isn’t another moniker that I am aware of that they go by so for now let’s all just make the assumption that we’re all on the same level here with who is and who is not a “real” monk.
E-fist, who was this guy? Why was he at your school? Is he one of the performers who does the travelling? What does beat down mean? I ask because it seems to me that while he may not be able to fight a little bit of acrobatic ability and the body control they obvisouly do have can go along way.
you have to watch out though. some can shoot fireballs from their hands. but krillan is only human so he can’t. :o :rolleyes:
He was not a performing monk. Supposedly he was some big shot, the head of a team of somesort. A representative.
This is going to sound like a kung fu movie: But in times like this a group of Chinatown teachers come together and write what they think about the person’s ability annonymously and then read it outloud.
My master volunteered to match with him and it was held in private at our school. I was not there, just his daughter and maybe another disciple.
The overall assetment: Fake monk, so/so technique.
We get visitors from time to time. My master is actually pretty well known in certain circles though a lot of the big names that respected him have passed on and he’s actually very humble, doesn’t open his mouth. (here’s an article that mentions him in passing: http://www.chusaulei.com/martial/articles/articles_feilungfumun.html)
Of all the visitors he’s told me about, the only one that he speaks favorably of is BK Frantzis, or Kuma as he calls him. Says his technique is pretty good and his Manderin better than his.
ok, so if I understand correclty E-fist he isn’t really what I am asking about in the first place since he appears to be mostly fake?
Yes and no. He was not one of the monks that are on stage flipping and what not. He is supposedly a senior monk, the type that manages that sort of thing and a more burly, bigger type guy.
He actually had fighting techniques, not gymnastics, but from witnesses it was more of the chop suey type.
The fakeness was brought up, because what would you think of a priest that threw his crucifix and roseary beads in the corner before fighting … and then forgot and left them there?
Speaking only for myself: when it comes to martial arts, high standards. White belts to green belts, they get applause for decent form. Brown belt and up, they better be sharp and clean and clear and their technique better zing. A representative monk from Shaolin? High expectations.
ok, so he had learned to fight at some point but couldn’t do it well?
The fakeness was brought up, because what would you think of a priest that threw his crucifix and roseary beads in the corner before fighting … and then forgot and left them there?
I wouldn’t put a Bodhi seed neckless (or any other bead) on the same level as rosary beads. They are used for counting prayers, sure, but they aren’t “sacred,” at least not in the same way. I wouldn’t even put a Chan monk in the same category as a Catholic priest. Two very different traditions with very different standards.
Removing the beads and forgetting them doesn’t disqualify his Chan training or make him any less Shaolin.
In fact, he was probably a wuseng anyway, a warrior monk, who isn’t even required to take the same vows as the religious monks.
I know for a fact that Lipeng and Yan ming can definitaly fight. As a matter of fact that is probably an understatment. I have spent time with both and know them personally.
It seems to me Yan ming is more of a san shou kick boxing style.
Where as Lipeng has a more Vibrating fajing taiji flavor style. Also he can move so fast it looks like his whole body disappears and reappears again somewhere else.
Lipeng has demonstrated applications straight out of the form that are very practical for actual fighting.
Most “monks” you see with the performance groups only focus on taolu(forms). They are usually not from the old school.
monks, monks and more monks
One of the problem with Shaolin monks is that most people don’t look past the bald heads and robes. FWIW, Beijing wushu team actually fielded a team a few years ago that wore bang tui (the lace up leggings - click here to see) and shaved heads, probably trying to captilize on the success of recent shaolin tours.
There are actually many levels of monks. Most expect the fully indoctrinated Buddhist monks since that is the romantic idea of what monks should be. These monks have taken all their Buddhist vows of abstinence, so they don’t drink or eat meat. We almost never see any of them on any tour. Next is the martial or warrior monks - wuseng - this is a special order of Shaolin monks who focus on preserving the martial legacy. Then we move to the non-monks. There are the laymen disciples. Hell I one of those. Can I fight? Well, as you’ll all see in the next issue, Van Do kicked my ass and shes’ a girl 
Seriously, if your judging Shaolin on my performance, you’re waaaaaay off target. There are other disciples who were actually raised at Shaolin, Shawn Liu, former USAWKF Sanshou coach, is probably the most notable example here in the USA. Then there are the private school students. They just study there. Then there are those that claim some connection but don’t study there at all. There have been a few “shaolin” tours that sport performers that aren’t even from there, sort of like the previously mentioned Beijing tour, but there was also a Shandong Tour, and even a tour that did Europe from a German group. Much of the problem is that Shaolin is unregulated and although the current abbot is trying to gain control over the Shaolin name, it’s not happening. Does this sully Shaolin’s name? Not really. Perhaps somewhat in the martial arts community, on forum like here, but most martial artists, once they encounter a more authentic Songshan Shaolin practitioner, be it monk or not, realize that they have a lot of skill. For the most part, these shows are for the general public, so they like the acrobatics since it reads froms stage much better than true explosive fajing demos might, or even live free sparring. So you have to keep the context in mind.
Anyway, back to the question, can the fight? Yes. All of the actual monks have fighting skills. Most all of the warrior monks have fighting skills too, although some of the younger ones are more focused on performing wushu than traditional. As for the disciples, we’re too busy looking for more girls like Van Do to beat up on us .
yenhoi - Did you see Lotus & Sword? What did you think?