I am a new member to this forum, I have been a little hesitant to join this forum because of all the arguing about Bak Fu Pai and everything else. I wish to discuss Bak Fu Pai in a humble manner. If this is going to take place I think the first thing all of us need to do is decide on some kuens to discuss. So lets all give at least two forms that we would like to discuss on this forum. We also need to tell our background in order to keep it real.
Forms-Leen Kuen, Gow Bo Kuen, Ying Jow Sup Jee Lo Wan Kuen.
Background-I am a student of Shifu Max Gerber.
isnt max gerber a x lacy…
eagle claw 10 attack returning fist,9 step fist or 9 step push? continues fist ihink you mean not, sure how you are saying it.
is this guy the white lotus…
they sound like bak mei forms, didnt doo wai learn under cheung lai chun and didnt he say he have a more pure version.(lacy wrote this in a artcle in a magazine)
isnt max gerber a x lacy…
eagle claw 10 attack returning fist,9 step fist or 9 step push? continues fist i that what you mean, not sure how you are saying it.
is this guy the white lotus…
they sound like bak mei forms, didnt doo wai learn under cheung lai chun and didnt he say he have a more pure version.(lacy wrote this in a artcle in a magazine)
I understand your hesitancy. I am always willing to discuss Bak Fu Pai, but as you have seen in the past, it usually degenerates into a shouting match. It didn’t take long for someone to come along on this thread casting dispersion and citing Lacy…and this always seems to happen. Nevertheless, I’ll give it a shot.
I would like to discuss Chong Bo Kuen. I think that too often students of MA’s view beginning material as something they must get through so that they can get to the “good stuff”, like they are paying their dues. Chong Bo Kuen is the good stuff. Certainly there are forms that are more complex in nature and that hone a different kind of energy, but this does not lessen the importance of Chong Bo Kuen. I have been doing this form for over three years and the energetic effects this form is capable of never cease to amaze me. Study this form! Anyway, that is just my humble opinion. I am a three year practicioner and do not claim to be anything more.
Lacy does not represent Bak Fu Pai. I don’t think you will find anyone associated with the system who will claim that he does. I can tell you that I have viewed videos from Lacy, and what he sells is not Pai material. At least, not what little I saw. Perhaps an article or two of his is sprinkled with the truth, I don’t know, but on the whole, I would say that your best bet would be to completely disregard anything associated with the man. Thanks.
Greetings Billy Pilgrim, good to hear from you. Chong Bo Kuen is a very distinct form. I have been practicing this form for some time too and I really notice that the more one practices it, the more he or she creates ging. It is short and effective. It may not be as complex as other forms such as Eagle Claw Ten Hook Return Fist, nevertheless it is an amazing ging producing form. Do you practice it every which way you can? With phoenix eye fists and tiger palms, I try to. I think with Bak Fu Pai and any martial art the practitioner must adapt. Lets talk some about Chong Bo Kuens applications Billy. Fierce Tiger I have to say that I do not wish to discuss Lacy because he is not Pai. Thanks.
Your words on the Chung Bo Kuen are pure wisdom.
The other night the GM referred to it as the key to mastering the system and yet few people even know HOW to do it or WHY. Will you do me a favor and email me and tell me about yourself? fubokuen@hotmail.com
Fierce Tiger- Teet Lohan may have got a short tape of Lung Ying Leen Kiu from Max Gerber last year. It is a Bak Fu Pai training form. The Gau Bo Joon is probably from a bootleg of some super8 film Doug Wong shot in the 70’s and the other is from the Lacy Bootlegs too.
Teet Lohan,
Yep, you got it about the ging associated with Chong Bo Kuen. Do this form when you are tired and it will wake you up! Better than coffee. I love it.
Fubokuen,
Glad to see that you are posting again
In the past, you have always been a valuable source of information for all things Pai related and I thank you for that.
Wow, look at this, 8 Bak Fu Pai posts and no sign of “Word”(knock on wood)! Oh, yeah…school’s back in session
One more thing I forgot to mention…
The importance of doing Chong Bo Kuen (or any form) slooooooowly and meditatively cannot be minimalized. There is a place for both teeth clenching intensity and raw power, as well as slow, thoughtful form practice. There is a wealth of Kung Fu in this form waiting to be unlocked by treating it as a moving meditation.
i have read the bfp history and i like very much, can you tell me please are there any relationship between bfp and bmp. chong bo, jik bo all develop the basic ging for these styles ,they are to be done slow and gradually fast.it develops correct postures…
Fierce Tiger- According to most references you’ll find, our founding monk escaped to O’Mei Shan WITH Bak Mei. Some I’ve seen tell of fraternization on Modong/Wutang mts. too.
This is not my site, but it’s just online, so I’m calling attention.
I can answer most of your Bak Fu Pai questions, feel free to email. fubokuen@hotmail.com
[This message was edited by Fubokuen on 10-03-00 at 12:50 PM.]
Fierce Tiger- Lacy steals from everywhere and groups material together according to his ridiculous “5 Elders” theory and then pretends to be everyone’s Master.
He has alot of stolen material on video, but he knows nothing about it and so the “stories” come in. He has absolutely no idea as to the nature of BFP and his phoney “18 Daoist Palms” is the name of the first form of Mew Hing’s 108 Lung Jeung.
He has a completely disjointed collection of bootlegs from many sources, but he tells a story and people redo forms for him that he doesn’t even know. It is not at all a “system”, but he probably has no idea what that means. He is just a con man, pure and simple.
The Monk had Mew Hing’s material similar to the Lau Gar within Hung Gar, seems MH died with no heirs. Apparently MH material does not utilize the BFP(crouched) posture, so I personally don’t see the point of interest. Perhaps it’s used to keep certain people at a distance?
…This Lacy is an amazing conman or alot of people are amazingly stupid. He says alot, it must be true! However, nothin’ he says checks out, none of the names he drops are associated with him.
It seems that I have to agree with most It does not Seem there are any adequate white tiger schools out there that have improvised on a few basics or mixed what they know with something else.
So Commercialised so sad.
2 of the forms mentioned are not white tiger and they do sound like Bai Mei more. The first is only a basic and there are not that many routines in white tiger from the original.
Thank you that is Fujian Shaolin Lineage Separate to silly Shaolin Do and recognised by Songshan Shaolin (See Shaolin Temple 40 Boxing Manuals History of Monks and Disciples) Currently but the arts are totally different nowadays (shaolin to Fujian).
Each Master in the lineage mastered many different systems especially after the monks, White tiger was through the Ermei Shan System which includes fire dragon and other silly named things. Instead of mixing with bai mei/dragon/family styles it was allowed to remain away from the guangdong/hakka influences although admittingly some basic training methods may have been mixed with ermei styles, though the specialisation focus through the monkhood usually keeps systems purer than through the general populace. Especially triad and rebellious societies.
Regards
Shi Chan Long
This is solely the pure fujian shaolin lineage.
Should you require further details just ask
This is very nice for you to have all this knowledge of the original Fujian White Tiger system! Can you give an example or tell us more? No one in the hakka-poisoned version is going to understand your Mandarin terms, but give us a chance. Do you have any history, like how did it get to “Ermei”?
BTW, those first two forms mentioned above are typos and do not exist. It should be Lung Ying Leen Kiu and Kau Bo June.
