[QUOTE=bawang;993275]because hes a crazy greedy opium addict[/QUOTE]
lol well…
no in all seriousness from what ive read from wsl and cheung they have made no mention of bruce being kicked out because he was a ****
i believe specifically it was “the william cheung story” in black belt many many many moons ago that discussed bruces leaving and explained why
and yip seemed to be a little trouble maker himself so i doubt he would mind bruces tude
I have never met Bruce lee and it’s hard for me to give a honest opinion on some ones martial art ability with out touching hands. As far as attitude also hard for me to give a honest opinion with TV interviews and magazine interviews for the simple fact you don’t know what was edited and what was for show. I think from the martial artist who have met him and know him Dan inosanto seems to come off as the most honest with out having to think how to answer questions about Bruce lee. I was going to post these clips on the wing chun thread good wing chun video. It’s probe more appropriate here.
First of all, stating the Bruce L was a mediocore Martial Artist, without ever meeting him, training with him, fighting him is pure speculation, but I guess speculation is truth on this forum, lol. It sounds like a few here are jealous or envious for some reason. If you can’t see the skills from watching the video available on him then I don’t know what to say (not necessarily talking about his movie footage, there’s other footage out there that show his attributes). Lots of top level MMA guys/Boxers have stated that they think Bruce was the man and had good skills, but the people here (who are you again, who have you fought, what have you done???) state otherwise, again alterior motives are in place here.
What I don’t like about the Bruce Lee legend is the false self image they have given him, with him being the best of the best fighters, and some sort of god of fitness and such. IMO he was a good fighter, and would fight with most anyone if the opportunity arose. Of course in his later years, he had something to protect, his family, his health, his career so he couldn’t just go and fight anyone at anytime, would you if you were in his shoes?? In that book that was written, by that Tom guy, it states some stuff about him being on steriods and stressed out paranoid, and I can believe that, I think he had that type of personality, the drugs don’t help and neither did his lifestyle. He definetly had an ego, but I think he was aware of that, but his sudden rise in fame may have taken him of course for awhile. He only made it the last 2yrs of his life, super stardom, so who wouldn’t be effected by that happening to them. He was far from perfect, but they portrayed him like that to keep the legend and BL gravy train going.
Bruce was a great inspiration, a great Martial Artist, and IMO a good fighter for sure. He lead the way in many areas in Martial Arts and was way ahead of his time. To degrade him like some have here, 35+yrs after his death, really shows the mentality of the forum, the lack of any type of ability to recognize talent, and totally discredits in my mind what the nay sayers have to say regarding anything Martial Arts related.
James
[QUOTE=sihing;993428]First of all, stating the Bruce L was a mediocore Martial Artist, without ever meeting him, training with him, fighting him is pure speculation, but I guess speculation is truth on this forum, lol. [/QUOTE]
And yet, your post was full of speculation.
His movies were cool, he did a lot to popularize martial arts, but saying he was a great fighter needs some evidence.
Sihing, when I think of great fighters from that time I think of Ali, a guy with extensive evidence of fighting skills. What tournaments did he win? What fights are well documented. Hint: look it up on Wikipedia, the results are kind of disappointing.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=pazman;993440]And yet, your post was full of speculation.
His movies were cool, he did a lot to popularize martial arts, but saying he was a great fighter needs some evidence.
Sihing, when I think of great fighters from that time I think of Ali, a guy with extensive evidence of fighting skills. What tournaments did he win? What fights are well documented. Hint: look it up on Wikipedia, the results are kind of disappointing.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
My post was based on the information available that I’ve been able to receive over the last 20+yrs of being a fan of Bruce. All of it says the man was a great Martial Artist, good fighter, and so forth. Some may interpret that differently, that’s the beauty of a free country:)
Again, I stated he was a “good” fighter. The truth of the matter is, we can’t really define accurately how good he was or wasn’t, he’s dead and no one here trained with him or fought with him. He looked damm’d good to me. Let’s look at it this way. Was Bruce fast? The people that trained with him and sparred with him have all said yes, really fast. He looks fast to me in the vids as well. Was Bruce powerful? Yes, same as above, according to those involved with him he was very powerful and strong for his size, with good power in his strikes. He sure did look like he had good footwork, that can be seen by the way he moved, it’s pretty hard to fake that, even if it is cooreographed, one still has to be able to perform and move to make it look real. Was Bruce aware of the fighting arts, like boxing and other arts? Yes, he was known for studying lots of fighting arts. Bruce was also known for his work ethic and kept a steady workout schedule for years. William Cheung told me that back in the 50’s they would train for 5 or 6hrs straight, then he would stop for the night but Bruce would continue training for a few more hours. So, so far it looks like he has the ability, attributes and training ethic to be a good fighter. I would say that he probably didn’t have a good chin, since he was not a big guy, but who knows. The people he did fight, yeah they could have been scrubs, but who really knows? More speculation, and from what I understand he beat all of them rather easily.
Ali of course was a great fighter, he proved that in the ring countless times. Competition brings about the best in athletes for sure, as it allows them to focus on one thing, plus the good ones get the best help. Just imagine how much better Bruce would have been if he choose that path and had the help Ali did. But to say that because Bruce didn’t compete he wasn’t a good fighter, well I have to giggle at that. There’s plenty of sleepers out there, unknowns that for one reason or another don’t compete. I’ve known a few personally over the years.
So for me, most of the naysayers here are full of it, and have a chip on their shoulders regarding Bruce. Maybe they should look into themselves to find out why?
James
Probably no one here trained with him, probably most people alive in teh world haven’t trained with him, but we all can look at footage he took of himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BluUhcEvPtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf12iowNH38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOFCMvb43jA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9GRApeZ-_w
none of this is very impressive…
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;993449]none of this is very impressive…[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about that. How many 2-finger pushups can YOU do? I can’t do any myself (almost, but not quite) even though I can do 1-arm pushups… 
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;993449]Probably no one here trained with him, probably most people alive in teh world haven’t trained with him, but we all can look at footage he took of himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BluUhcEvPtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf12iowNH38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOFCMvb43jA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9GRApeZ-_w
none of this is very impressive…[/QUOTE]
Too be impressive or non impressive you must be comparing it to something else, now what would that be, some present day MMA icon or super pro boxer with more help and assistance than you can shake a stick at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kvyjK8j3jg&feature=PlayList&p=68BB1960562EC81E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=20 , Ali on the bag, not so impressive either, at least compared to some other bag work I’ve seen done by other boxers. So what does that prove?
Besides, I thought there was really nothing wrong with the clips posted. A couple of them were demo’s, the sparring one looked good (again it’s hard to know what his intentions were with his partner, maybe he didn’t feel like killing him in front of all those people??), and the bag work looked like power shots to me.
JR
[QUOTE=cerebus;993454]I don’t know about that. How many 2-finger pushups can YOU do? I can’t do any myself (almost, but not quite) even though I can do 1-arm pushups… ;)[/QUOTE]
No, but I have done 3 one arm pullups from a dead hang with either arm. In my younger days I could hold one leg in the air, nearly vertical, while standing on ONLY the TIP of the big toe of my base leg, and hold it indefinitely, AND I could do it with either leg.
I could also do 4 kicks in a second!
Therefore, I was an awesome fighter when I was younger!
The evidence of BL’s martial greatness are ALL anecdotal.
The evidence of Ali’s boxing greatness can be viewed by anyone first hand!
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;993468]The evidence of BL’s martial greatness are ALL anecdotal.
The evidence of Ali’s boxing greatness can be viewed by anyone first hand![/QUOTE]
This is true, as Ali was involved with the most popular sport in the world at the time, so he had the advantage of having large scale media attention. If he was a karate fighter or sumo fighter he wouldn’t have the same attention. The thing is Ali wasn’t invincible, and got hit quite often. It was a combination of his great skills, heart and will to win that made him who he was. Nobody really knows how good they are until they are put to the test, Bruce included. There were people that new that fact 1st hand, some have told us all of their experiences with Bruce. Also, like I mentioned before, one can see his skills in the way he moves. The facts are, Bruce could kick most people’s a$$es, incl. the majority of the Martial Artists of today, professional boxers/KB/MMA and so forth excluded, and they make up what % of the total population, .0001?
I guess I’ll have to agree to disagree with the majority here:)
James
[QUOTE=sihing;993470]The facts are, Bruce could kick most people’s a$$es, incl. the majority of the Martial Artists of today, professional boxers/KB/MMA and so forth excluded, and they make up what % of the total population, .0001?
James[/QUOTE]
Herein lies the problem…it is NOT a fact he could, it is surmise based upon watching his movies and anecdotal evidence.
Surmise is NOT a fact, it is a belief!
Do not get me wrong, it is clear, if nothing else, that BL influenced, motivated and inspired a few generations of martial artists, including myself, but if from observing his movies and demonstrations he has led you to believe he was one of the all time best, you are not a very good martial artist yourself or you are just too young in your training to have achieved a high level of skill.
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;993472]Herein lies the problem…it is NOT a fact he could, it is surmise based upon watching his movies and anecdotal evidence.
Surmise is NOT a fact, it is a belief!
Do not get me wrong, it is clear, if nothing else the BL influenced, motivated and inspired a few generations of martial artists, including myself, but if from observing his movies and demonstrations he has led you to believe he was one of the all time best, you are not a very good martial artist yourself or you are just too young in your training to have achieved a high level of skill.[/QUOTE]
Well like I said before, I never said he was the best, all I said was he was a good fighter and great Martial Artist, that’s what I see in him. I don’t believe in the word “best”, as it is very subjective to make a claim like that. Was Ali the best boxer ever?? I think he may have been one of the best, up there with a group of guys.
As for my skills, who knows, for some I am good, for others I suck, it depends on whom I’m going up against, and how good my training was. This applies for all of us. Against Anderson Silva we all suck, against our next door neighboor we’re great, unless of course our neighboor is Anderson S:)
James
[QUOTE=sihing;993473]Well like I said before, I never said he was the best, all I said was he was a good fighter and great Martial Artist, that’s what I see in him. I don’t believe in the word “best”, as it is very subjective to make a claim like that. Was Ali the best boxer ever?? I think he may have been one of the best, up there with a group of guys.
As for my skills, who knows, for some I am good, for others I suck, it depends on whom I’m going up against, and how good my training was. This applies for all of us. Against Anderson Silva we all suck, against our next door neighboor we’re great, unless of course our neighboor is Anderson S:)
James[/QUOTE]
I am not intending to insult or belittle you or your skills, but if your skills have/had anywhere near approximated what you perceived to be BL’s perhaps you would have a different perspective.
At best we can say he had a reputation for being a fighter, and in the eyes of some, a pretty good fighter. The problem is, there is no real evidence of this.
Where does the marketing of the man end and truth begin? It is doubtful it will ever be certain. For years it was heresy to say anything negative about the man. This is primarily due to the marketing that created his legend and the uniqueness of his personality and movies.
He was the man who changed the face or martial arts and martial arts movies. He was an inspiration to millions, but most of those millions were either marital arts novices or non-martial artists. This made it difficult for anyone to criticize him.
I wish I still had all of my posters of him from my childhood though!
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;993474]I am not intending to insult or belittle you or your skills, but if your skills have/had anywhere near approximated what you perceived to be BL’s perhaps you would have a different perspective.
At best we can say he had a reputation for being a fighter, and in the eyes of some, a pretty good fighter. The problem is, there is no real evidence of this.
Where does the marketing of the man end and truth begin? It is doubtful it will ever be certain. For years it was heresy to say anything negative about the man. This is primarily due to the marketing that created his legend and the uniqueness of his personality and movies.
He was the man who changed the face or martial arts and martial arts movies. He was an inspiration to millions, but most of those millions were either marital arts novices or non-martial artists. This made it difficult for anyone to criticize him.
I wish I still had all of my posters of him from my childhood though!:)[/QUOTE]
There’s no evidence to us. None of “us” have experienced it for ourselves, that is all. That still doesn’t deny the possiblity that he was a good fighter, lots of people have said so including some of the present elite fighters of today, so who am I to say otherwise. I do know that no one is unbeatable, and no one ever lives up to the legend other people portray to the public. It’s like Elvis, James Dean and other famous people that die before their time.
I agree, back in the day it was a no no to say anything other than he was a god. But when that book came out a few years ago, revealing some things that he was involved with, it brought the legend down to a more reality based image of who and what he was, just a man with a huge dream and extreme motivation to succeed.
James
I just prefer to stick to what we can be sure of, he was an inspiration to millions, THAT cannot be denied.
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;993476]I just prefer to stick to what we can be sure of, he was an inspiration to millions, THAT cannot be denied. :)[/QUOTE]
I’d much rather be known for that, than being a fighter anyday. As Rocky once said “You gotta be a moron to want to be a fighter…”.
The interesting part is that he still is today to some of this generation, which is amazing after this much time since his death.
[QUOTE=sihing;993481]I’d much rather be known for that, than being a fighter anyday. As Rocky once said “You gotta be a moron to want to be a fighter…”[/QUOTE]
LOL!!! Ain’t it the truth!
Although I wouldn’t also mind being known for having awesome skills regardless of whether I fought or not!
[QUOTE=sihing;993448]So for me, most of the naysayers here are full of it, and have a chip on their shoulders regarding Bruce. Maybe they should look into themselves to find out why?[/QUOTE]
exactly !
but remember this is the internet where everyone is martial arts expert and can do better lol
id like to see the guys who said he wasnt very good demonstrate what skill is to us:D
[QUOTE=goju;993500]exactly !
but remember this is the internet where everyone is martial arts expert and can do better lol
id like to see the guys who said he wasnt very good demonstrate what skill is to us:D[/QUOTE]
I think your point of view is incorrect.
One doesn’t have to be an expert to critique someone’s skills or to post on KFMF.
What is an expert?