WC will give you the most in the least time. But if you want to put gloves on take up boxing.
Shao-lin Do or Oom Young Do! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Made of fail
I am calling bs on this statement. The reason is this: Learnibg a fighting method and learning a style are two different things.
Not if they’re done right.
San shao does not teach a style of movement. It teaches barebones fighting.
seriously, is there an award for most fallacious statement? Of course San Shou teaches a style of movement, just as boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and wrestling do.
Which tcma style has less of a focus on forms and more on conditioning and fighting?
Again, you don’t understand your own question. This is a question about class structure, not style.
Choy li fut can be good if it is trained more like kickboxing and less like…well doing 5 million of the same exact, but slightly different variation, form. And dropping that “internal” form they have would be good too.
Training like kickboxing? You mean padwork, live drills and sparring, such as you’ll find at large numbers of CLF schools? Why get rid of the internal forms? Stretching and relaxation are important parts of a training regime.
IMO any short hand style that trains like wc is useless.
Shorthand is fine as long as you understand the realities of hand fighting and attached striking, and train it realistically. Again, this is about training methodology, not style.
And for god’s sake you do need clf’s internal form to fight .
I think you’d be pushed to find anyone who’d say you do.
RW,
San Shou was developed from a mixture of boxing, Shuai Jiao/Wrestling, and traditional Kung Fu. I don’t see what being modern has to do with it, and honestly, it’s not all that modern. If I remember correctly it was developed during the cold war (shortly after WW2) by the Chinese military and various Chinese Kung Fu masters for militaristic purposes and was developed into the sport version in the 1960’s. Considering a majority of “traditional” systems were developed the last hundred years, San Shou is not that “modern”.
Regarding the animal techniques found in many Kung Fu styles, many I find eccentric and not that applicable so in some regards you make a point. That being said, mantis hooks as I was taught grab, pull, and hook the back of the head, very similiar to the plum in Muay Thai. Tiger Claws are strikes (with palm) followed by ripping with the focus being on finger strenght and bone conditioning, and are best suited from clinch and control.
There are many more I find applicable and some that I don’t. But it is unwise to dismiss all things you think are irrelevant because the training you received was inadequate or “lacking”. (I just channeled my inner HW108:eek:)
I teach San Shou at my gym, and the way we train is very similar to how my teacher taught us. Training methods will always be what makes a style applicable, so you are right that those who only do forms and punch air all day probably suck and can’t fight. But than again, from my school of thought those doing so are not what I consider traditional Kung Fu.
One more point, San Shou can be taught as a style but it is moreso a venue for Kung Fu practioners and other martial artists to test their skills in a full contact environment. There are plenty of Kung Fu peeps who train and compete in San Shou and also do forms and other practices not up to your “high” standard.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1143763]
(I just channeled my inner HW108:eek:)[/QUOTE]
You must never speak of this again.
[QUOTE=PalmStriker;1143729]So you think you could beat down a chimpanzee (in his prime) of lesser weight in a cage match with your real skills? Yes, no? After tearing you limb from limb he would bite your face off your lecturing head.[/QUOTE]
This must be why humans early on banded together into groups and used weapons and language to fight in a coordinated way. And above all, a lone human (with enough sense to have a chance of reproducing) would never go into a confined space with an animal. If I remember right from tv, Masaai know how close they can go to lions before triggering an attack. Brains are much more decisive than brawn. I mean, the chimp would be just as chanceless in a televised debate format.
as someone posted in another thread, “skill will trump brawn most times.”
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1143798]as someone posted in another thread, “skill will trump brawn most times.”[/QUOTE]
Size and strength are a huge factor which explains weight classes in combat sport competitions.
[QUOTE=Ben Gash;1143752]Not if they’re done right.
seriously, is there an award for most fallacious statement? Of course San Shou teaches a style of movement, just as boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and wrestling do.
Again, you don’t understand your own question. This is a question about class structure, not style.
Training like kickboxing? You mean padwork, live drills and sparring, such as you’ll find at large numbers of CLF schools? Why get rid of the internal forms? Stretching and relaxation are important parts of a training regime.
Shorthand is fine as long as you understand the realities of hand fighting and attached striking, and train it realistically. Again, this is about training methodology, not style.
I think you’d be pushed to find anyone who’d say you do.[/QUOTE]
I was talking specifically about shaolin animal movement. The movement taught in wrestling is efficient and has purpose. They do not pose in tiger formation.
It was stated by that mantis hooks are for grabbing. So does that mean that everyone who has not studied mantis cannot grab? I think you understand this point. Ponder it while I practice my mantis hooks so I can pick up the tree I just cut down in my backyard. I probably would have just stared down dumbly at all the branches had it not been for the invention of mantis hooks.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143800]Size and strength are a huge factor which explains weight classes in combat sport competitions.[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile the promoter of the event is raking in the cash and doesn’t risk injury.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143801]I was talking specifically about shaolin animal movement. The movement taught in wrestling is efficient and has purpose. They do not pose in tiger formation.
It was stated by that mantis hooks are for grabbing. So does that mean that everyone who has not studied mantis cannot grab? I think you understand this point. Ponder it while I practice my mantis hooks so I can pick up the tree I just cut down in my backyard. I probably would have just stared down dumbly at all the branches had it not been for the invention of mantis hooks.[/QUOTE]
Who poses?
I have to agree with the others. It seems like you have a rudimentary understanding of martial arts, and you are just running with it, laying down whatever preconceived notions you can dig up. You really need to get some experience before commenting like this, because it’s embarassing.
When I asked my teacher about this animal question he explained that the animal movements are using animals as a kind of model or metaphor for teaching effective human movements or mental attitudes. It’s not about just posing or empty performing. Of course the modern wushu animal forms can often be just performace oriented, but that is just a circus act, IMO. You have to look to the real stuff.
Ponder it while I practice my mantis hooks so I can pick up the tree I just cut down in my backyard.
Anyone can intuitively grab with their opposing thumb, but most people won’t instinctively hook while keeping their thumb together with their fingers. The latter is a very useful tool.
Size and strength are a huge factor which explains weight classes in combat sport competitions.
No one said it was not a factor in the equation. But skill still has a mastery over it. If your looking for examples look to the early ufc were there was no weight classes. Keith hackney fights come to mind or Fedor’s fights, I’m sure I could dig up a lot more where skill won instead of power.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143800]Size and strength are a huge factor which explains weight classes in combat sport competitions.[/QUOTE]
Size and strength are more of a factor against someone with poor skill sets. I personally walk at 190lbs, fight 170lbs and 98% of the time am paired up with the heavies for training and sparring. They usually have the problem with me because of my speed and skill, even on the ground. I may get tossed around but rarely tapped by bigger partners. They’re just too slow and have a tendency to try use that strength advantage but it just tires them faster. a good technical fighter will beat size and strength a majority of the time.
[QUOTE=Shaolin;1143811]Size and strength are more of a factor against someone with poor skill sets. I personally walk at 190lbs, fight 170lbs and 98% of the time am paired up with the heavies for training and sparring. They usually have the problem with me because of my speed and skill, even on the ground. I may get tossed around but rarely tapped by bigger partners. They’re just too slow and have a tendency to try use that strength advantage but it just tires them faster. a good technical fighter will beat size and strength a majority of the time.[/QUOTE]
It applies to the ground as well. I lost to a guy that barely came up to my shoulders, but he was very experienced… wrapped me up like a pretzel.
[QUOTE=Drake;1143803]Who poses?
I have to agree with the others. It seems like you have a rudimentary understanding of martial arts, and you are just running with it, laying down whatever preconceived notions you can dig up. You really need to get some experience before commenting like this, because it’s embarassing.[/QUOTE]
Practicing animals is rudimentary. Should I practice circling my right arm and thn pushing forward while pushing with my left hand into a bow and arrow? That is the tiger movement. A technique for this is pulling a guy’s punch while joint locking his elbow and then pushing him away. This would never work. I have studied tcma for a long time. Too long.
Practicing animals is rudimentary. Should I practice circling my right arm and thn pushing forward while pushing with my left hand into a bow and arrow? That is the tiger movement. A technique for this is pulling a guy’s punch while joint locking his elbow and then pushing him away. This would never work. I have studied tcma for a long time. Too long.
I think you can’t get passed the notion that gung fu uses ANIMALS to describe certain mind sets and approaches.
and another funny thing is [SIZE=“5”]MMA[/SIZE] training uses animals names for what they do as well. LMAO
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143829]Practicing animals is rudimentary. Should I practice circling my right arm and thn pushing forward while pushing with my left hand into a bow and arrow? That is the tiger movement. A technique for this is pulling a guy’s punch while joint locking his elbow and then pushing him away. This would never work. I have studied tcma for a long time. Too long.[/QUOTE]
What TCMA have you studied? Because from the sound of it, it’s nothing I’ve ever seen or heard of.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143829]Practicing animals is rudimentary. Should I practice circling my right arm and thn pushing forward while pushing with my left hand into a bow and arrow? That is the tiger movement. A technique for this is pulling a guy’s punch while joint locking his elbow and then pushing him away. This would never work. I have studied tcma for a long time. Too long.[/QUOTE]
You may have studied some TCMA but your thought process is all wrong. Or your ability to type your thoughts out on computer is bad. Either way your sense of what is TCMA, is a bit different than most of the rest of us TCMAers here on the forum.
ginosifu
[QUOTE=RWilson;1143829]Practicing animals is rudimentary. Should I practice circling my right arm and thn pushing forward while pushing with my left hand into a bow and arrow? That is the tiger movement. A technique for this is pulling a guy’s punch while joint locking his elbow and then pushing him away. This would never work. I have studied tcma for a long time. Too long.[/QUOTE]
Hey Bra, u mad Bra??