[video]https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=824830577587309&pnref=story[/video]
Yep, that’s a sow choy alright! I wonder if Bas is even aware that it’s identical to the CLF punch or not.
I like Bas Rutten.
That’s CLF knockout shot? I mean one of their big guns? It is what possibly gives the wing chun guard trouble? I had considered swings in another thread.
Aikijujitsu has similar ideas of striking with the forearm.
A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick…
I have found virtually all the same techniques in all the styles I have trained in.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1282226]I like Bas Rutten.
That’s CLF knockout shot? I mean one of their big guns? It is what possibly gives the wing chun guard trouble? I had considered swings in another thread.
Aikijujitsu has similar ideas of striking with the forearm.[/QUOTE]
Irimi nage in aikijutsu/aikido
That’s CLF knockout shot? I mean one of their big guns? It is what possibly gives the wing chun guard trouble? I had considered swings in another thread.
that’s one of CLF’s bread and butter techniques. Even though its our sow choy, he doesn’t put the body mechanics into it the way we do. everybody swears they can deal with the sow choy until they get hit with a good one.
Still, that is only ONE single use for that type of swing. We have a few more things in regarding to the usage of it.
Don’t ever under estatimate the sow choy.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1282227]A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick…
I have found virtually all the same techniques in all the styles I have trained in.[/QUOTE]
I agree. It becomes what they consider main techniques that receive the attention based on their strategy. That is a nice shot Bas shows. It was the only upper body strike I could get nice bag fold on. It digs. I never have ever used anything like that on anyone. It can cause should issues.
It is what possibly gives the wing chun guard trouble?
What Iron shins is to Muay Thai, Iron forearms is to Choy Lee Fut. yes we train to smash that guard
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1282232]that’s one of CLF’s bread and butter techniques. Even though its our sow choy, he doesn’t put the body mechanics into it the way we do. everybody swears they can deal with the sow choy until they get hit with a good one.
Still, that is only ONE single use for that type of swing. We have a few more things in regarding to the usage of it.
Don’t ever under estatimate the sow choy.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Our posts most have came through at around the same time. I missed it. BOMBS, get out of the way or get crushed. For me it is similar to a overhand.
Still for myself, I worry I could land it against a guy that really understands that guard as some of those clips show. That’s another way to potentially stop a shot similar. Post a jab in their face. Which seems to be a main strategy. They may choose different terms. I realize I am looking at it within a limited context. I did so purposely for myself. Not to look at every possible way to deal with it but from a boxers perspective with no gloves on. Trying to keep it stand up.
I can see how having trained forearms to smash and potentially damage their guard would be advantageous. A similar answer I thought of was attack the hand. That poses other problems for me. Perhaps stay outside and jab that hand to death? Maybe.
I forgot to mention. I glanced at some old time boxing manuals. Similar guard. The have a block that looks strikingly similar to a karate up/over head block. It may have in fact been used more like a wedge. A little pop up and maintain and rush it in leveraging the arm up. A weakness I see with the hand out. Probably better applied as they are coming in with their strike. A counter. Draw to counter.
Quick search I returned this. Similar as I saw in the pdf I have. They give 3 very similar examples. Dan Djurdjevic. I like his blog but sometimes forget he has it.
That just jogged a memory. He wrote an article called Claytons Gap. Anyway the link.
http://www.traditionalfightingartsforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1887
Does anyone here think it could be done off the front lead and follow up with the rear? Perhaps use that " block" as a guard that he has to get around. Catch it , up it goes and ideally you have already fired a straight to the head or body. Spleen is this case.
I entertained the idea of a right catch and crossing over with a left. Problem is the bodyweight is coming in and roots quick, because of possible back foot weighting.
It’s tricky limiting your style when they have so much more to answer with as a whole. As it stands, I personally do not believe I could box the way I did and get around that guard. I would have to change the approach. Trying to stay with in boxing. I keep going back to grapple. Answers in grapple. Can it be figured out just using the hands as attack weapons? Very hard.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1282234]What Iron shins is to Muay Thai, Iron forearms is to Choy Lee Fut. yes we train to smash that guard[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Sanjuro mentioned everyone basically has the same techniques; and that’s true, but not everyone develops them to the same extent or for the same uses.
Everyone has a jab, but few systems have developed it to the extant of western boxing. Most everyone has some version of a round kick, but the Muay Thai round kick is the most feared. Many have what we call sao choi, but perhaps not utilized to the degree that you see in Southern long arm.
Incidentally, I notice Pratical Hung Kyun’s page just posted this same video as the Hung Ga sao choi. 
Of course that **** kick. Old time boxers kicked too. I think for the most part unless you have a boxing style different than I did. Or , if you are similar in approach as I was. This guard is a terror for me if I was asked to match like these guys did and it appears all involved where willing to alter rules per fight. If I used boxing where the other guys used karate. I don’t think I stand a chance. Another boxer with different approach and skills, maybe? I would have to change so much I might as well learn another style.
Thank god people don’t do much of this in bars and such. I think a clear conclusion I can’t make my art fit this in that situation in the videos if used exactly as I would use it against another boxer. If they drop the kicks, it would make things much easier.
Oh well, fun little “could I”. I don’t believe so.
That one wing chun man was a pleasure to watch.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1282250]Of course that **** kick. Old time boxers kicked too. I think for the most part unless you have a boxing style different than I did. Or , if you are similar in approach as I was. This guard is a terror for me if I was asked to match like these guys did and it appears all involved where willing to alter rules per fight. If I used boxing where the other guys used karate. I don’t think I stand a chance. Another boxer with different approach and skills, maybe? I would have to change so much I might as well learn another style.
Thank god people don’t do much of this in bars and such. I think a clear conclusion I can’t make my art fit this in that situation in the videos if used exactly as I would use it against another boxer. If they drop the kicks, it would make things much easier.
Oh well, fun little “could I”. I don’t believe so.
That one wing chun man was a pleasure to watch.[/QUOTE]
Not to get off subject, but your right about old time boxing. Boxing has changed a lot with different rules and gloves. I’m not a boxer per se, but I train at a boxing gym, sometimes training the boxing regimens and sparring with the boxers…I think the skill can carry over very nicely to all the other disciplines, just the stance and guard aren’t well suited vs kick boxing or mma. If a boxer is willing/able to alter his fighting stance, his tools are very useful…but that’s heresy to most purists…
I have nothing against altering anything. I’m all for it and I certainly am glad we do have purist’s so go back to for answers. I just became curious after seeing those clips again, how would I do against someone of equal skills and style as shown. Using only what I used in the ring? One could get lucky. But using the reasoning of okay, I know what I can and can not do. Against this, what are your options? I’d need to change it to much it would no longer qualify for my original idea. That is just referencing myself or perhaps someone that fought similar as I with boxing.
I was also trying to keep toughness out it as much as possible. Yes, that alters outcomes. Just my style against this. Could mine prevail. I honestly believe not.
Sorry for any confusion. I speak far better and can convey my thoughts far better than through writing. I realize the troubles people may have reading my words.
Blacklist and bed. See you all later. Thanks for the input.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1282227]A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick…
I have found virtually all the same techniques in all the styles I have trained in.[/QUOTE]
Yes. This is the Praying Mantis quan chui (huen chui) referred to in this thread:
Pretty common basic power strike.
[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1282248]Yeah, Sanjuro mentioned everyone basically has the same techniques; and that’s true, but not everyone develops them to the same extent or for the same uses.
Everyone has a jab, but few systems have developed it to the extant of western boxing. Most everyone has some version of a round kick, but the Muay Thai round kick is the most feared. Many have what we call sao choi, but perhaps not utilized to the degree that you see in Southern long arm.[/QUOTE]
This is true.
Also, as hskwarrior mentioned, CLF has many variations on the sow choy/sao choi, as well as ways to apply it.