Lai See,
What? Yau Kung is a joke now? Please, please explain that one. Har Hon Hung wasn’t a student of CLC? He wasn’t a student of Tiat Yun? Seriously, please explain this to me.
About the other bit, I’ll wait until my question is answered, which is won’t be.
[QUOTE=TAO YIN;996808]
…SNIP…
I couldn’t give a shiit about all of that because I know how important lineage, legend, and mah jong is to Chinese Kung Fu men. I couldn’t give a shiit who studied with who, for how long, and all of that other useless Bullshiit.
…SNIP…
[/QUOTE]
Mahjong is not useless Bullshiit. 
I have no clue about this stuff, however I had to quote this one simply for the mahjong factor. Sorry, just a lover of tcma + mahjong & to see mj dropped in was like heaven
You are right, Mah Jong is cool. I like Mah Jong and dumb fark talk, not Mah Jong and “no it goes this way because I am the original bad arse,” talk. That usually just makes me want to throw the pieces at whoever said it then turn the table over on them…You see how it gets out of hand?:eek:
[QUOTE=diego;995786]I read the headlines but had no idea to care, now I’m putting full time all my free time into Bak Mei yall really need to give me the page by page details on the genesis of doo wai and one J. Lacey.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tosserhand#p/u/2/gw4pasFPfUY
lmao[/QUOTE]
Sigung is not PMPai, he’s the head of Bak Fu Pai. Bak Fu Pai is a family style that has been kept within the family for years and has been taught to a few people outside the family. Of course, taking into consideration how many people have studied a style like Lung Ying or Pak Mei. Bak Fu Pai is similar to Pak Mei, just as Pak Mei is to Lung Ying. There short hand styles! Comparing PM to BFP is almost like comparing Chu Gar Gao and Jook Lum. Same hands, different energies. One style is know for it’s geng ging and the other for it’s Yau Kung. Geng Ging is but the beginning for us in Bak Fu. Same is true is YKM!
Don’t judge Sigung by a guy who isn’t even his student. Sigung has a clip of him on youtube doing jikbo back in the days. He’s actually training the energy form, as the Pak Mei he has is called Hung Mo/ErMei Bak Mei and every routine has a fighting form, chi gung form and a endurance form.
Bless,
Buby
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;996264]I thought it might be Futsan Pak Mei.
There is no Doo Wai lineage of Pak Mei.
It is total fabricated crap unrelated to Pak Mei other than what he learned in a few months from Wilkie Wu in Vancouver. The video demonstrates no understanding of pak mei, simply a mimic of some superficial movement. It is completely different to Jik Bo from real pak mei. Just to be clear on that point. There is no Doo Wai Pak Mei.
But, feel free to call it “white tiger”, I’m fine with that. :D[/QUOTE]
Yummy,
You know better then that! The student in the vid. is a Lacey student and not a Doo Wai student. Shhhh, Lacey aint even todai to Doo Wai.
Why don’t you put up a clip of yourself, so we can see what real Pak Mei looks like.
Thanks,
Buby
Buby
[QUOTE=TAO YIN;996931]Lai See,
What? Yau Kung is a joke now? Please, please explain that one. Har Hon Hung wasn’t a student of CLC? He wasn’t a student of Tiat Yun? Seriously, please explain this to me.
About the other bit, I’ll wait until my question is answered, which is won’t be.[/QUOTE]
Stay waiting Bro, cause I doubt you’ll get an answer.
Bless,
Buby
Bro, How goes it?
Yep, I guess that I am going to have to wait for any rational responses. Oh well, it’s Friday! 
Take care
[QUOTE=Jorge;996998]Sigung is not PMPai, he’s the head of Bak Fu Pai. Bak Fu Pai is a family style that has been kept within the family for years and has been taught to a few people outside the family. Of course, taking into consideration how many people have studied a style like Lung Ying or Pak Mei. Bak Fu Pai is similar to Pak Mei, just as Pak Mei is to Lung Ying. There short hand styles! Comparing PM to BFP is almost like comparing Chu Gar Gao and Jook Lum. Same hands, different energies. One style is know for it’s geng ging and the other for it’s Yau Kung. Geng Ging is but the beginning for us in Bak Fu. Same is true is YKM!
Don’t judge Sigung by a guy who isn’t even his student. Sigung has a clip of him on youtube doing jikbo back in the days. He’s actually training the energy form, as the Pak Mei he has is called Hung Mo/ErMei Bak Mei and every routine has a fighting form, chi gung form and a endurance form.
Bless,
Buby[/QUOTE]
Sigung? I see your video sifu Garry is still associated with Doo Wai.
As you referred to the Doo Wai jik bo clip, and apparently consider yourself a Bak Fu Pai practitioner (via video?), perhaps you can answer these questions:
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;719699]With regards to Lama Pai Sifu’s comment about Bak Fu Pai and it’s appearance as “sloppy” Bak Mei, these two clips seem to support his contention.
Bak Fu Pai (beginning at the 1:20 or so mark):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s–J4EihtM
Bak Mei Jik Bo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccUjuaGTllQ
The movements are identical and in the same sequence. Could it be that Bak Fu Pai is simply renamed Bak Mei? Perhaps Doo Wai decided to create a new style from Bak Mei, giving it a secret history, as he couldn’t compete with higher generation Bak Mei teachers (such as Chin D’or). Such things have been known to happen in the past. Please note, this is a supposition, but the lack of a verifiable lineage, as well as the pronounced similarities to Bak Mei, make it a legitimate line of inquiry.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;719775]Now, as that is out of the way, please feel free to address my supposition re: the relationship between Bak Fu Pai and Bak Mei. I would also appreciate some comments regarding the following.
From a 1990 article in Ancient Sets of Kung Fu, authored by GM Doo Wai:
“Bok Fu Pai (White Tiger) Kung Fu, has been conserved in a most traditional way, it was handed down from father to son until now. From Fung Doe Duk, the secret of White Tiger Kung Fu was passed to Kwong Wai Jung, then to Jok Wan Jung, then to Yee Too Jung then to Wou Shan Jie, a monk whom in exchange for food and lodging taught the White Tiger System to Doo Kow, whom in turn passed it down to his son the present head of the system, Grandmaster Doo Wai.
In 1968 Grandmaster Doo Wai came to the United States, settling on the West Coast where he still resides and teaches but a few privately.”
In Bak Mei’s lineage, Kwong Wai learned from Bak Mei and, in turn, taught Juk Fat Wan. If Bak Fu Pai is separate from Bak Mei, why are these two in it’s lineage? In addition this would seem to contradict lineage trees on other Bak Fu Pai websites that list Doo Tin Yin as having learned from Fung Doe Duk. I hope that you, or Dr. Harout, can clear up this inconsistency.
Also, I was hoping you or Dr. Harout would address the similarities (i.e. how they are almost identical) between Bak Fu Pai’s Chum Bo Kuen and Bak Mei’s Jik Bo Kuen (please see my first post on page 13 of this thread for a visual aid).
Thank you, in advance, for your replies.[/QUOTE]
I never did get any answers during that whole donny brook.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;997095]Sigung? I see your video sifu Garry is still associated with Doo Wai.
As you referred to the Doo Wai jik bo clip, and apparently consider yourself a Bak Fu Pai practitioner (via video?), perhaps you can answer these questions:
I never did get any answers during that whole donny brook.[/QUOTE]
RC,
I’m leaving work, but will answer the questions to the best of my ability as soon as I get home.
Nah Bro, I’m no longer a vid. student. I thought you would know that by now.
If you don’t mind me asking, are you in NYC?
Buby
Reality Check,
Maybe you can answer my question since you seem to know:
Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???
[QUOTE=Jorge;997106]RC,
I’m leaving work, but will answer the questions to the best of my ability as soon as I get home.
Nah Bro, I’m no longer a vid. student. I thought you would know that by now.
If you don’t mind me asking, are you in NYC?
Buby[/QUOTE]
No longer a video student? Cool. I guess the sigung comment threw me off. I remember you saying something about one of your friends having opened a boxing or muay thai gym. Is that what you’re doing now?
Nah, I’m not in NYC. I’m in Jersey (I know, I know…:eek:)
[QUOTE=TAO YIN;997112]Reality Check,
Maybe you can answer my question since you seem to know:
Why would Wai have complete knowledge and understanding of the entire Bak Mei system???
[/QUOTE]
The more pointed question is, “Why do you think he does?”
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;996453]No jing, no swallowing or spitting, shoulders too high, no rooting, etc, etc.
Either a beginner or someone that was taught the moves with no intent or perhaps a “video” trainee.[/QU I don’t get it, I’m on my way to BAK MEI on a friday night could be@da bar. Why do people sell fake video instead of spending time training properly…like from the level of studying fitness theory the topic issue is hilarious.
Yum Cha,
Very good point. I’ll gladly answer as bluntly as possible and give my views. Perhaps this will take some space…I will be as objectively as possible, and I won’t sit on the fence.
With regards to my question… I have no fuucking idea…I can speculate although I hate to because it isn’t very objective now is it?
-Wai learned from his father, and his father, and so forth.
-Wai’s father was friends with CLC.
-Wai was friends with CLC.
-Wai’s father learned from the monk on the mountain too.
-Wai’s father learned from one of the monks disciples.
-Wai was a student of many in Hong Kong, and somehow through great memory remembered all that he saw to where he knew all of the complexities of various styles, and went from there.
-Wai witnessed lots of Fu in Hong Kong from various styles, miraculously remembered complex hand movements and principles from all of them, and went from there.
Now, I could go on and on with speculation, the POINT HERE is…I don’t know, and YOU DON’T KNOW TOO. Noone here needs to pretend that they do.
-You saying that you don’t believe because so and so who wasn’t even there, or for that matter born during that time, means nothing to me. Pointless debate.
-You saying that you don’t believe, because so and so who was there, and was born during that time, again means nothing to me. Why? Because every Chinese Kung Fu Man, is out for number one, and has their own agendas…If you really think about it, we could spout of bullshiite about every Chinese Kung Fu man under the sun, forever…
-Reality Check, although having a cute name and posting some article from Wai, also proves NOTHING. As usual. Why? Wai might have made all of that up in that article just to cover his agenda, no matter what it was. I am not saying that he did. NO ONE KNOWS!!! If someone does, they ain’t saying it here.
Now, I reckon that you lot are educated people. All that has been said here in this thread, all that has been said in the past on the nets and in magazines, all of it, MEANS ABSOLUTE SHIITE!!! And you all know that. If you don’t, then you have made up an answer for yourself. Which if that is the case, would be a crock of bullshiite as well. The only thing that matters in all of this in the end of it all, that is for people who can get over themselves and can wade out of The Chinese Kung Fu Man Role Syndrome Shiit, is the physical aspects of it.
DOES ANYONE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF IT? Not talking about mosquitoe hand talk from watching a vid on youtube. Post your experiences from training Wai’s watered down Bak Mei as you like to call it. Tell me, what worked and didn’t in all of the clubs that all of you bounce in, in all of the tourneys that all of you are in, in your military bullshiite, and etc…Tell me why the forms are the way that they are, and why one is better than the other. THEN, COMPARE AND CONTRAST IT TO BAK MEI…
TELL ME WHY HAVING QUICK HEAVY AND LOOSE HANDS IS A BAD IDEA, AND THAT IT IS BETTER TO HUNCH OVER WITH YOUR SHOULDERS STUCK OUT WAY IN FRONT OF YOUR BODY AND JUST USE YOUR WAISTE AND BREATH with movement. (For christ’s sake, even Peek-a-boo style boxing doesn’t do this).
So to close, let’s all stop blowing smoke up each other arses. The way people carry on here about who did this and that, is farking SO poofta gay.
When the truth is found, it’s usually not as cool as we thought it might be. If we really knew the full and absolute truth about CLC, it probably wouldn’t be near as cool as we thought it might have been. If you guys can’t see this, in regards to everything in life, you’ve got your blinkers on to a very farked up degree.
Cheers.
Tao
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;997113]No longer a video student? Cool. I guess the sigung comment threw me off. I remember you saying something about one of your friends having opened a boxing or muay thai gym. Is that what you’re doing now?
Nah, I’m not in NYC. I’m in Jersey (I know, I know…:eek:)[/QUOTE]
I still train with Sifu Garry, just not via vid. anymore. I vid what I train with him.
Yeah, I’ve been training thai since 95 and boxing since 82. My uncle and the crew he ran with were pretty big in the street fight scene in bedsty(70s-mid80s), so he taught me to box and he and his boy Pebbles taught me the blocks version of the 52.
If you ever in NYC holla at me. Jers aint to bad. Atleast, ya got the med. marijuana bill.:eek:
Buby
Tao,
You keep coming up with the regurgitation of his con, and his poor woe is me, everybody is jealous of my secret skills jive.
You are reciting the con, chapter and verse, maybe this, maybe that, always looking for the reason to believe, not the proof.
You have ONE source, and of course your comrades who also drank the kool aid.
I know its going to break your heart, but Pak Mei is a fairy tale, let me say it once again in case you didn’t get it the first 10 times. Its a fairy tale.
He didn’t have secret stuff that CLC didn’t get because he didn’t exist.
People can practice hitting a nail with a hammer and get kung fu. People can train the most simplistic martial art and learn to fight exceptionally. Spirit, the human intellect and physical training can create fighting skill from very little other than sweat. That proves nothing.
Logically, you are caught in a loop: You believe what he told you, that nobody else knows, and surely everybody proves it, that they don’t know indeed.
The problem is, people do know. They know where he came from, they know how he reacts when they come up and knock on his door, they know his objectives, because he has videos still out there that show his game.
But all that aside, there’s his skills. His lessons and performances are all over the internet. His 'secret family style, handed down father to son for generations and so tightly held, is all over the internet like pay per view sex chat come ons.
The physical reasons have been discussed ad nausium, but we always come back to his people trying to recite his con back to justify verbally what can’t be justified physically.
You want a lesson from me now, on the difference between his style and Pak Mei?
You want to talk to me about internal Pak Mei and Ng Hang Mo, Siu Jau Teen, Di jau teen and lok gang ging, and the methods of cultivating the ging and breathing?
I think that’s probably unnecessary, being that you have such gold from other sources to fill your cup already.
Nah, you got me all wrong, especially on the mental aspect of it, that’s for dammn sure. I didn’t drink any cool aid. I don’t need a reason to believe anyone.
I wasn’t regurgitating anything. If I was, it was simply because I am a human on this earth and have heard other humans open their mouths full of shiite, good or bad, to tell me his regurgitation. I SPECULATED. Read everyone of those speculations again if you didn’t understand. Again, you are going back to being subjective, (not your whole post mind you). I never said anything about anyone being jealous. You subjectively read into whatever I objectively said.
LOOK PLEASE, I don’t care if he made all of it up while sitting on the shiitter…Can’t you get that?
Breaking a broken heart is hard to do bro. I KNOW that BAK MEI is a fairy-tale. I KNOW that CLC was a man who ate, slept, shiit, ****sed, farked, laughed, etc…I know that Wai was, and his father was, and the monk was, and that I am, and that you are, and that everyone on this whole entire planet, past, present, and future, IS.
I agree with everything in your 6th paragraph except the last sentence. IT DOES PROVE SOMETHING. It proves that sitting here talking shiit about people no one here knows, and noone who they know knows, is NOTHING. It also proves, that in the end of it all, that is all that matters. Who farked who isn’t. We just think it is simply because society and history tells us that it should be that way.
NO, I DONT BELIEVE WHAT HE TOLD ME…FARK! I don’t know him, for the 10th time. hehehe! You like it? The only loop that I am caught in is trying to explain to you my perspective, which obviously you could care less about. Well that, and death and taxes.
So people know? Okay, good we are getting somewhere kind of. WHO? Who has went to his door (Coughs, bullshiite…), Who knows his objectives? You can post that for the other readers… AGAIN, in case you didn’t read my first post and are simply wanting to put out your objectives… I DON’T CARE ABOUT CHINESE KUNG FU MEN PLAYING MAH JONG AND THEIR OBJECTIVES! You don’t know anyone who knows where he comes from. Was it Huizhou’s thereabouts? Nice place, I have been there. Had noodles at a place near CLCs. Shiite noodles but. Seriously who do you know that knows. Which won’t matter, because AGAIN, everyone can say they know…Proves nothing.
Anything on all over the internet, (You mean YOUTUBE and a few sites out of billions), save maybe one form done, he is in his late 70s doing it…Come on! You can do better than that.
NO, his demonstrations haven’t been discussed ad nausium. You just say, looks like mosquitoe killing. But you never say that about Wing Chun. People just say that his stances are bad and his hands are too fast. Nothing else. Because noone else talking about it trains it. It’s pretty simple. Which by the way, I don’t care how good or bad he does it.
AND no, I don’t want a lesson from you. Do you want one from me? If I did anyways, I would just ask in person next time I was around. I’m sure we would both learn something cool and it would be a good time. I don’t know if there is any good Dim Sum around where you guys train, but we could find something good to eat afterwards anyways…Maybe play Mahjong even.
I was simply asking anyone to discuss this rather than discussing who shiite in whos mouth. I was simply asking why in the world he would have all of that knowledge and know all of those forms, the same as the HK Bak Mei forms, by heart. That’s all. Nothing else. Yes, I would like to talk about internal because it is my passion, and I know from training all of these different kinds of methods over the years, that A PERSON just can’t get the same kind of internal from doing Meng Fu Chut Lum, slowly. It just doesn’t happen…
Anyways man, I think you have me badly mistaken. I am all about results. I don’t care about lineage wars and fairy tales, at all. I have traveled the world over training various styles. I have probably actually lost life rather than gained it from training martial arts. Still, I know little.
Sifu Garry is much better at Kung Fu than I am, so I listen to him and take his advice. There are many people better than I am, and I listen to them and take their advice. I am all about becoming better. I gain from training the internal methods, whether they are from Yau Kung Mun, CLC’s Bak Mei, or Wai’s White Tiger, or some dumb fark down the street.
THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN AND THERE NEVER WILL BE…That is just how it is.
Let’s contribute to saving cyberspace if anyone here wants to answer my question…
Cheers,
Tao
http://www.youtube.com/user/SifuWu?aia=true#p/u/159/wnW7LAdeyjM
Who is demoing this Sup Ji?. it’s like identical to what I’m training but dude is so much better than me at coiling…@ like the 49 second mark is where I’m up to…so cool to find cross country video of a master demoing something I’m just getting into like only under a month of training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BYOSG6_dw&feature=related
Who did JC train with and is there good video online of jackie demoing the White Eyebrow?.
[QUOTE=diego;999099]http://www.youtube.com/user/SifuWu?aia=true#p/u/159/wnW7LAdeyjM
Who is demoing this Sup Ji?. it’s like identical to what I’m training but dude is so much better than me at coiling…@ like the 49 second mark is where I’m up to…so cool to find cross country video of a master demoing something I’m just getting into like only under a month of training.:)[/QUOTE]
Diego,
If you don’t mind me asking, who do you train with? Sifu Wu, if I’m not mistaken is guandong PM, but I could be wrong. One of the older lines of CLC Pak Mei.
I like the force generated in his forms. His three strikes are awesome, all with power.
Thank you in advance,
Buby