bagua sword

[blacktaoist]

Dong anyone can see I explain myself very well in my last post to you, so it seem you are the one with the problem.

You sure are confrontational.

You must be talking about yourself right Doug!

I am NOT referring to the practitioner’s skill; I AM referring to the wushu implement. Using a wushu balde is different from a real one (you should know since you own two). The way the blade moves, its weight, its balance, its construction–everything is different. A new practitioner of Bagua may see this and get the idea that this is a good way to demonstrate the art. In terms of choosing to use a wushu blade, that is a choice for the demonstrator to make. But it is an inaccurate one. Wushu tools just act differently–case closed.

I do know Dong. So please post information or something I don’t already know!

Now, you are STILL in the process of turning this into a personal attack. Get a clue, please, and drop it. For an internal martial artist, you are awfully quick to negative aggression.

I think its all in your mind Dong. So get a clue this is a martial art discussion forum where people post they viewpoints which is open for debate. But from the way it looks on this forum just because I post a few of my viewpoints, which seem to aggressive for you to handle, you are quick to assumed I taking what you have to say so personal.

In a way I am struck with amazement of your assumption of me, being you never met me or talk to me in your life in person, that you seem to be able to tell me what the hell I’m thinking and feeling mentally and emotionally over the internet. But hey it seems a lot of you internet cats can go beyond the PC dimension. ..Hahaha:D

Just ****ing with you Dong…SMILIE:) and hit a little ***** and you be alright. Don’t take this discussion so hard man, I’m only having fun because I’m bored.:o

[blacktaoist]

Peace Walter Joyce,

What you been up to these days in your training? As for me I been training a lot these days. I can see nothing has change up here on KungFuline. O well good to be back home…Hahaha:)

Hey there a Kung Fu tournament this saturday in Akron, OH, I be there, so any of you kungfu on line heads that live in that area, we can meet up and play a little. Push hand /spar

Here the link to the Tournament:

http://www.snakefistclan.com/pages/7/index.htm

[Doug]

Hey, thanks for proving my point about you. Keep it up!

DOUG

[Walter_Joyce]

Originally posted by blacktaoist
[B]Peace Walter Joyce,

What you been up to these days in your training? As for me I been training a lot these days. I can see nothing has change up here on KungFuline. O well good to be back home…Hahaha:)

Hey there a Kung Fu tournament this saturday in Akron, OH, I be there, so any of you kungfu on line heads that live in that area, we can meet up and play a little. Push hand /spar

Here the link to the Tournament:

http://www.snakefistclan.com/pages/7/index.htm [/B]

Peace BT,

Nice clip, Yeah KFO, the antihtesis of BGZ, no changes.

I’ve been staying on track, lots of ji bengong, tien gan and circle walking. Using a weighted vest sometimes too. Been kicking this monster heavy bag as well. Looking for someone to train with in the Boston area for partner drills, and waiting for Luo lashi to come back. Still hitting 5-6 dats a week, one day of rest, although I’m thinking of just doing circle walking on the rest day.

Nice posts, from Ben as well.

Walter

[maoshan]

Peace Walter

Thanks for the props. How’s life been treating you?
For me, it’s all about getting ready for this years Annual All Ba-Gua event. Other than that, maintaining my class and training when I can. Also,preparing to travel for other up coming events including going to Ohio this weekend.

Peace

Maoshan

[bamboo_leaf]

True seekers know the difference because they learn through seeking.

very cool, very true

[blacktaoist]

Hey walter,

Good to hear you are doing your thing, and developing your martial skill. Right now I’m training a lot of Qigoing stuff and push hands, I still hit the bag from time to time..

Walter being that you like the first clip I put up on my website. I sure you love this next clip I just put up. This clip is old, but you be able to see what going on. This BaGua player is demonstrating with a real big Dao, no Wushu sword here… You also notice the chopping in four directions.

http://www.blacktaoist.com/BaGua%20broadsword%202mov.html

For you Kungfu on lines heads that don’t like rap, deal with it.

[backbreaker]

Whao! Awesome video.

[looking_up]

Ha, I thought the radio station on my iTunes started playing KRS-1, but when I stopped iTunes the song kept on playing!

[Walter_Joyce]

Ben,

If at all possible schedule-wise I want to make your tournament this year. I’ll be looking for the info as you post it. I’d love to meet you and BT, plus seeing a room full of ba gua players would be sweet.

BT

That clip was off da hook, the music was perfect

Peace
Walter

[Paul_E]

“Lu Ji Jian’s Double Broadswords which weigh 20p apiece, master Ma’s 100 pound Kwan Dao.”

Hey Maoshan, who are these two gentlemen? Can you give a little background? (I like biographies of past masters.)

Thanks

That clip was nice!!! Soundtrack and everything. Woke me up.

[Doug]

latest video clip

Where did this video clip come from?

Who is the man with the dao?

Are you certain the sword is real? The footage is not so clear that one can readily distinguish the sword from a real one or a spring steel one. Hey, it’s just a question!

As everyone can see, this sword plays differently than a wushu one.

This is an interesting demonstration. Thanks for posting it. However, if you have extra information about the links you provide, please include that with the links as well. Such explanation can clarify things quite a bit.

Doug M

[blacktaoist]

Where did this video clip come from?

Beijing China my Teacher gave me the video tape of hours of footage of A BaGua small town tournament competition as a gift. The balde on the Dao in the clip is real, because for one the tournament was not a BaGua WuShu competition. Two none of my BaGua Teacher martial art brothers train with WuShu toys. (LOL)

Who is the man with the dao?

One of my BaGua teachers martial art brothers. This is why I have footage of him. I don’t know his name right off the back right now, But one thing I do know he play Traditional BaGuaZhang.

Are you certain the sword is real? The footage is not so clear that one can readily distinguish the sword from a real one or a spring steel one. Hey, it’s just a question!

The sword is real that’s my answer.

Peace

[Doug]

Originally posted by blacktaoist
[B]The balde on the Dao in the clip is real, because for one the tournament was not a BaGua WuShu competition. Two none of my BaGua Teacher martial art brothers train with WuShu toys. (LOL)

The sword is real that’s my answer.[/B]

Well, none of this guarantees that this sword is not wushu or spring steel. Look, I am not knocking on any skill; I am merely pointing out the difficulty of determining real from not real. In some cases, one can go by opinion, but given the age and date of this video, opinion does not count for much unless one was there. Do you have any footage of you using your real Bagua Dao in a similar fashion? I would like to see that (then, I could refer others to that link–win-win situation). Do you practice with it in a similar fashion (footwork, speed of movement, etc.)?

I talked to another Bagua practitioner about this clip, and he also finds the realness of the sword questionable. He uses a 4.5 pound Bagua Dao for his practice and finds similar difficulty with the clip as I did.

Again, I am just talking about the tool, not the user.

Doug M

[blacktaoist]

Do you have any footage of you using your real Bagua Dao in a similar fashion?

No. I train the Big Dao for power development, then for show. personally man, I don’t have to prove anything to you about the clip I posted. If you want to think the Dao is a Wushu sword, you have a right to your opinion. I don’t have time for this back and forth debate with you , which in my opinion is keeping boring. Believe what you want to believe.

Peace

[Brad]

The blade seems to have some flexability(not sure if this is normal or not… don’t own any “real” swords myself), but it’s defenitely more solid than the cheap $35 wushu steel that you get today. If it were cheap wushu steel, a blade that size would be flopping around like crazy. You can even see the thickness of it in a few points on the video.

BTW, is there anywhere online that a real Bagua sabre can be purchased?

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. Of all places, Cold Steel Cutlery actually has a combat steel Bagua Dao. It ain’t cheap, but it looks like the real deal. Take a peek.

[Doug]

link a link a bottle in ink…

There actually is a place online that sells heavy Bagua Dao. I am kicking myself right now for not saving the address. I will try to find it. It might be somewhere on this forum, so you may want to check here first. I forget where I got the link, but it was definitely on a discussion board.

This link has some sword applications in frame-by-frame clips. You need to go to the “Pa Kua” section.

http://www.chiflow.com/

The Cold Steel Bagua Dao looks like the Lung Chuan 32" combat broadsword offered here. What do you think?

http://www.coldsteel.com/csstoreonline/willeafsworb.html

http://store6.yimg.com/I/martialartsmart_1781_2839780

Compared to the Kris Cutlery dao…

http://www.kriscutlery.com/chinese/index.html

…AND compared to the antiques…

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/03furnf.htm

The dao does seem to be stronger than a wushu version, but I am unsure if it bends too much. I just edited this post and still cannot find the link. I think it is on this forum somewhere.

And here is one more link to a famous practitioner from advertisements with a Bagua Dao:

http://site.netopia.com/bagua/nss-folder/pictures/DrPainterbaguado.jpg

Doug M

[doug_maverick]

bagua dao!

i have the dao displayed in this pick:
URL:http://site.netopia.com/bagua/nss-f...nterbaguado.jpg

it wobble at the tip just like bt’s gung fu uncle’s but it’s still made out of steel and it’s about four pounds, it’s light as hell to me now but when i first bought it(i was about 16 or 17) it was a bit heavy and hurt my wrist after a few movements. i’m trying to find a heavier one (10lbs would be nice), i actaully saw one made outta black steel here in nyc’s china town. i wanted to buy it but i was short on cash bout time i went to get the money come back(20 or 30 minutes) someone scooped it up. the chinese guy told me it was a special edition and he doesn’t get it that often. i’ve tryed to track it down on the net but couldn’t.

[maoshan]

Peace

Doug

(Hey, tell us more about the duels!)

Robert Smith mentions them in his books. The Hung Brothers were well known as a ref’s for these matches, Hung I Sheng more so then Hung I Min, Allen Pittman’s Teacher.

bamboo_ leaf

Thanks Guy!

Walter Joyce

I look forward to meeting you as well. As soon as I know, you will.

Paul_E

(“Lu Ji Jian’s Double Broadswords which weigh 20p apiece, master Ma’s 100 pound Kwan Dao.”

Hey Maoshan, who are these two gentlemen? Can you give a little background? (I like biographies of past masters.)

I’m on my job right now, so I don’t have access to my notes but, Master Lu Is a E-Mai Taoist And Ba-Gua Successor, under whom I can’t remember at this moment. He is also Yuan Ming Zhang’s Ba-Gua Teacher who is also his Ba-Gua successor. Right now he is 111yrs old and still teaching.
Grandmaster Ma Was a 62-63 Generation Shaolin Lohan stylist through Bai Yu Fung’s Lineage.
As soon as I get a chance, I’ll Dig up the info on him and Lu and post it.

Doug

(Are you certain the sword is real? The footage is not so clear that one can readily distinguish the sword from a real one or a spring steel one. Hey, it’s just a question!)

I can attest that the Sword is real. These people take their training extremely serious.
They take the term “You have to eat bitter” to the next level.

(I talked to another Bagua practitioner about this clip, and he also finds the realness of the sword questionable. He uses a 4.5-pound Bagua Dao for his practice and finds similar difficulty with the clip as I did.)

Why???
You mention the weight of his Dao, Is this to imply that he couldn’t move that fast with a 4.5-Pound Dao, so the guy in the clip couldn’t do it either?
Just asking, because if that is the case, 4 ½ pds is light. This weekend while in Ohio, I had the opportunity to see and hold Sifu Tony Yang’s Ba-Gua Dao And Deerhorn Knives. His DeerHorns are the baddest pair I’ve ever seen and their very real. The feel of them was beyond words. As for His Dao, It turns out that he and I have the same one. And by the way, the last time I posted I Said that my Dao was 6 pounds and change. I was wrong; it’s around 10 pounds at 5ft 5in. Tomorrow I’m going to post a picture of me holding it next to the common commercial Ba-Gua Dao.
Anyway,
Please explain what the difficulty was that you and this Ba-Gua practitioner had with the clip. Was it the weight of the blade or the combat readiness of the blade or both?

As for the links, Those Dao’s are the commercial sizes, just made with real blades. I’ll post the pictures.

Peace

Maoshan