there is no punch that generates the forces that a roundhouse kick does. You really can’t compare the two.
droping hands
In my years of practice, I’ve noticed several things
- power for your kick comes from hip movement and inner thigh strengh/speed
- the students i’ve noticed that drop thier gaurd tend to kick to high, and as a result drop thier guards to create a counter balance, which is bad control
however practice makes perfect.
after they catch a few to the side of the face they should learn.
guarding with the opposite hand prevents catching them in the face. thai boxers are an example of those who don’t kick high when they do this.
seven star , couple coments to what you have stated
[B]there is no punch that generates the forces that a roundhouse kick does. You really can’t compare the two.
it is not the force generated that I was comparing. it was a sloppy and begginer mistake that is made.
[B]it’s really only sloppy when you don’t perform or understand the full kicking technique. When you do the kick, you step out at an angle - this is to get you out of the way of the opponent’s cross, which is a common counter to the roundhouse. Also, as stated above, you bring the opposite arm to the side of the face with the dropped arm, protecting it.
This is my point. if you use the arm as a counter balance you arent performing/understadning the kick. however obviously you do not have to step out an an agle to perfrom the kick dont know why you said that? even with the oppostie arm progtecing the face you are relying on 1 hand to protect the entire upper gate. not a god idea.
I haven’t read all of this thread yet, so this may have been said, but dropping the hand acts like a counterbalance on the body. Notice that when thai fighters do it, they also raise the opposite hand, covering the face with it. The face is then guarded by the arm on one side and the shoulder on the other.
again using the arm for counter balance is a BAD habit! better balance within the kicker is all that is needed. this is sloppy but I guess it depends on what level your are in your training.
But if I ever see my studetns using the arm for anything like this I nip it in the bud immedialty.
Or hit the side of the face when they do it and then they learn much quicker.
Well, the disconnect here is the difference between 7*'s Muay Thai roundhouse and Earthdragon’s CMA roundhouse. Earthdragon is explaining things according to CMA mechanics, but 7* is relating the mechanics of the Muay Thai kick, which is different, much stronger, but prone to imbalance you because of the way it’s thrown.
CMA roundhouse = more balance
MT roundhouse = more power
I’ve been hit with both in the legs. The MT one is the only that made me sit down and take a break. 
Who here has a roundhouse kick in their forms?
I am not certain that a roundhouse is part of chinese martial arts and has been adopted into them. I certainly don’t have any forms that contain a roundhouse kick. Lot’s of other types of kicks, but no roundhouses. Haven’t seen them in other cma styles either.
So, I am not certain chinese martial artists should be dictating to Muay Thai guys how to throw their roundhouse kicks. 
Good point. I’ve seen one form done with front kicks and the same form (more or less) that will have a round-house thrown in where a front kick used to be.
It’s also worth thinking about the contact point in a roundhouse kick.
Do you hit with your instep? Your shin? Your inside ridge?
Do you launch in a arc? Can you cut downward with the kick? Do you just fan it in etc etc. There’s a few ways to do this kick and each has a different result and power issuance. The downward cutting arcing version is probably the most powerful iteration of this kick. imo.
When I was at the last kungfu kwoon in my old home town I was taught a version of the roundhouse where the instep was used as the contact point, the knee was used to point the target and the kick was snapped back. It was a quick little kick, but to do it with any juice takes practice practice practice. The Muay thai version arcs, drives through and cuts down and as well uses the shin as the contact point. Frankly, it is much more powerful and mechanically can be a little trickier to do. You have to thrust your hip and get the whole gitalong going like a whip. Once you get the shape of it, the power issuance in that version is pretty dang good. Just saying.
It is taught at my school the same way you are describing it. We are taught to use the top of the foot or the ball of the foot as a striking surface. The ball is harder and preferred, but if you are wearing shoes, it is difficult to curl the toes back.
My current training partner who is a black tiger stylist uses a roundhouse where he strikes with the ball of the foot and curls the toes back.
I found this interesting because this is something I learned in Karate and didn’t expect from a hk kungfu man. lol.
It’s still a good kick and puts force into a small area, this can cause some damage.
I am pretty sure, the ball of the foot version comes out of Karate styles and has been adopted into chinese MA and Korean as well.
My partners use of the kick in this variation was my first encounter with a CMA-ist using a roundhouse in that fashion.
Judge, as you are an SD guy, there is a lot of Japanese influence in that style and it really shows. That’s probably why you will see variants of JMA inside of it’s expressions of cma.
I can’t disagree with that. The degree and the origins etc may be arguable, but I believe that many things got mixed together in that melting pot of Indonesia where SD came from. Not that it’s bad, but it is different in some respects.
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen some mantis stylist use a low round-house kick in their forms. I hadn’t heard of any other CMA hitting with the ball of their foot before your analogy, but I found that to be interesting. The ball of the foot strike makes much more sense if you are barefoot. Does your friend practice barefoot? I recently watched a tape of an old kung fu demonstration in the late 1960s in California and a mantis fellow (I forgot his name–Sean a little help) did his forms barefoot and with a black gi on. :eek:
you don’t HAVE to step out at an angle, no. But if you don’t, you have a much greater chance of eating a counter punch.
My fourth form has low (below the knee) roundhouse kicks. The shin is the contact point. However, the motion is more “Thai” style in that there is no chamber.
True dat…
mk- is it a tripping or sweeping kick? Those have more of a hook and pull to them at the end in how I learned them.
What style do you practice again?
Not a trip or a sweep. Its a kick to the knee/shin, using your shin as the contact point. Basically, you swing your back leg into their shin with no chamber. The kick is done 4 times in the form, and is supposed to buckle the knee to set up the next move, which is a trip/throw.
Unlike a MT kick, though, we don’t turn/rotate the hips.
I’m a Chang Chuan guy, but with a disclaimer: My long fist left China in the 40’s and didn’t look back.
MASTER KILLER, Not true at all. you said
[B][B]Well, the disconnect here is the difference between 7*'s Muay Thai roundhouse and Earthdragon’s CMA roundhouse. Earthdragon is explaining things according to CMA mechanics, but 7* is relating the mechanics of the Muay Thai kick, which is different, much stronger, but prone to imbalance you because of the way it’s thrown.
CMA roundhouse = more balance
MT roundhouse = more power[/B
I totally disagree! the kick is the kick, it doesnt matter what style is doing it! it depends on the person. so if your staement is true a karate kick is more powerful than a tae kown do kick?
balance and power have to do ONLY with the training agility and person. It has nothing to do with the style.
I know a shorynji stylist who has incrediable power and alance is it becuse of his style?
david , I agree with the ball of the foot. I learned to kick like this in GoJuRyu. it is much harder to execute but small point of focus. I have not seen this in CMA.
sevenstar, sorry i thought you said you had to sept at an agle to exucute, however you then agreed with master killer on the thai verses CMA kick statment. hmmmmmmmmmm
ED, it’s just not the same kick. The Muay Thai roundhouse is a different kick than a CMA roundhouse. The mechanics are completely different. You don’t step out on a CMA kick because you don’t have to…you can keep your balance with your hands up.
However, you should step out with a Thai kick because it’s thrown differently, so much so that you need to use your arms to counter-balance it, which leaves your face open (unless you guard with forward hand).
Hung Fut has roundhouse kicks in several forms.
Not true, as the differing description of the kicks should tell you… or are you going to tell Seven and other practioners of Thai kicks that their way is wrong?!
Bollocks. It has a lot to do with the person but of course it also has to do with the style.
Partly the style, partly the person.