Att: Repulsive Monkey Or Any Other Tcm Practitioners-low Jing-help!

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Traditional Chinese Medicine
1

I went to see a TCM doctor yesterday and she said that my jing is very low/weak. (I think I may also have yin deficiency) I am 32 now and she that that I should be in my physical prime but instead my internal organs/jing are that of an older man. I guess the cause of this low jing is excessive ejaculation in the past. Needless to say this rather frightened and concerned me as I don’t want to be “scr@wed” when I’m older and be all weak and sick.

So, here are my questions: is everyone born with a fixed amount of jing that lessens each time we ejaculate until its all gone and we die, or can it be replenished/refilled via breathing, food, herbs, chi qong, weightlifting… I have heard that jing can and also that it cannot be replenished. The doctor said that if I was to cook herbal prescriptions into a tea then in around six months I would be better. If jing is irreplaceable than how could that be so? In the meantime I am taking the patent medicines, as prescribed by the doctor,(because I can’t afford the herbs today) of gejie da bu wan and yao kwei pills. Any thoughts on these?

I have heard from some sifus that all patent medicines are basically trash/useless, however, the chinese doctor says that they are effective, although they take a lot longer to work (a year?) Your thoughts?

Finally, would American, Korean, or Chinese ginseng teas be helpful in my case? (I buy the cheap ‘instant’ ones that are like five packets/cups for two dollars. Or are these cheap ones pretty useless? I’ve also heard it said that people under the age of 40 shouldn’t use ginseng. True? False?

So, in the meantime I’m hoping to treat this via patent medicines, ginseng (?), weightlifting, zhan zhuang, chi qong, and sexual abstinence until I learn to have taoist ejaculation-free sex where you send the energy up the ren mai and du mai channels. Your thoughts?

Finally, are there any foods that are specifically helpful or damaging to the jing?

Any other means of helping the jing would be appreciated too.

thanks in advance for your help

2

Nothingness

Truth is, is that Jing is finite and once it’s gone your gone basically, however don’t despair because there is a option to sustain and have and healthy old life. Jing is what you’re born with and is refered to as Pre-Heavenly Qi, doing internal cultivation for health, regulating your sex life, eating the right foods and meditating helps cultivate Post-Heavenly Qi. Both are vital but if you take care to conserve the decreased amount of Jing one has and concentrates on developing the Post-heavenly qi you will still be able to have a good life, but I must say it will require more effort than someone with good solid Jing as they an sit back a little and allow their constitutional health take over.
It sounds like your committed enough already to take your health into your own hands and make a difference, and thats where intent comes in. If your spirit and intent are determined then you’ll cultivate plenty of qi.
I would say in advise although the ginseng will usually galvanise the kidneys, which in your case would be a god send, be careful as your doctor said you had Yin Xu (xu=deficiency), which means that there is some degree of latent heat in your body e.g. thirt espcially in the afternoons and evenings, night sweats, waking up frequently at night, and generally needing to cool down. Ginseng is a heat generating plant and will escalate the heat already created by the Yin xu, so don’t over load on it or you could develop more heat ascending symptoms.
Jing, again, is fixed and one cannot generate more of it unfortunately even though some Qi-Gong Masters claim you can. One can refine one’s Jing but it’s best and easiest just to make some lifestyle changes that mean you cultivate more post-heavenly qi instead.
Who ever said patent herbs are useless is unfortunately, not a very intelligent person, because some of them are very powerful. Admittedly the herbs in the free-leaf and dried form are the most powerful but I have seen some amazing results with patents. I will say that if you can stomach them loose leaved herbs are always worth trying to get used to though.
I think you’ll be ok as you have already stated that you intend to do standing postures which should dramatically (if taught and done correctly) bring about some good results, however I do frown when you say weight-lifting. If you do weightlifting anyway thats fair enough but I would never choose to weaken my kidneys even more with weightlifting. Just think about the popular strain related injuries weightlifters get in the back around the kidney area?

Personally I think diet standing postures, and regulation NOT abstinance of sex would make a whole lot of difference.

I’ll send another reply to this too as there is some other bits of info which may do you well but I dont have their sources at hand right now.
Don’t try to allow anxiety to battle against the strength of your desire to make your health strong and long-lasting, your health sounds a little under par yes, but that doesn’t mean that that’s a death sentence by any means. It sounds very encouraging that you are already springing into action at this young age to rectify it and that will pay off in dividends when you are in your 80’s.
Most of all be happy in the knowledge that your re-affirming intent has got self awareness enough to implement these changes, whereas so many people would carry on their lives and probably die very weak in their 50’s or early 60’s, it would appear from your attitude that you are different to that.
Take care and stay in contact.

3

Very good advice.

4

Thank you Repulsive Monkey (and guohen) for your advice- I look forward to the rest of it. RM, what is your opinion of the 2 patent formulas I mentioned, and what do you think of those cheap packs of ‘instant’ (korean) ginseng? In regards to weightlifting, its true that many people injure themselves this way, however, if I exercise proper form and caution with such exercises as the deadlift, which acts to strengthen the lower back and torso, could that not be a good thing? Also, I was under the impression that weightlifting builds chi. thanks again for your advice.

5

nar, take the advice and give up weight lifting. Do aerobic level exercises or just loads of qi-gong.

An alternative is to do good deeds, and study the sadhana of the king of Medicines…

6

Definitely non-alternative,alternative perspective

“I went to see a TCM doctor yesterday and she said that my jing is very low/weak. (I think I may also have yin deficiency) I am 32 now and she that that I should be in my physical prime but instead my internal organs/jing are that of an older man. I guess the cause of this low jing is excessive ejaculation in the past. Needless to say this rather frightened and concerned me as I don’t want to be “scr@wed” when I’m older and be all weak and sick. …”

I would like to pose a few counter-questions if you do not mind.
Have you seen a doctor before (TCM doctor does not count) ?
If you did,what was the diagnosis?
Was there a diagnosis?
You indicate that you are 32 and could very well be in your physical prime,what makes you think you are that diseased?
Are you aware that to believe in being sick is a condition itself?
Are you aware that this may lead into various psychosomatic conditions?
Why do you think ejaculating would weaken you?
Are you aware of chemical build-up of herbal drugs that you are/are about to take/taking?
What do you mean by/what patient medicine are you taking?

"In regards to weightlifting, its true that many people injure themselves this way, "
There are not only so many,but many many basically healthy ways to injure oneself.

This all boils down to the fact that if you are seriously concerned,I think you should see a qualified health care professional.

I may get whipped for this but I believe my concern to be legitimate.

7

Nothingness

I’ll only say this once, and not for dramatic effect but, weightlifting DOES NOT build qi, if anything it can drain if done to excess.

You have had a variety of information passed to you and mainly it’s come from the heart from the people here. I think you’ll be successful in building a long healthy life because it’s in all of us and you are no different. I will try , as I promised, provide some more info.

Cheers Guohen for the nod.

And by the way listening to Prana is just like getting a blessing, what comes out of his mouth and heart is totally inspiring, he,s a man worth listening to.

8

I am familiar with this problem.

Take the herbs, eat well, sleep well, avoid negative people and negative situations. Try to take the loose herbs if possible, if your herbalist is good, the can be very powerful. I wouldn’t take the ginseng if I were you. It could have negative consequences if your kidney’s are yin deficient, as RM said.

RM, look forward to your post with additional information.

9

Thank you everyone for your replies and help, they are appreciated. I went back to see the chinese doctor and she said that I have two conditions- kidney yang deficiency, plus a lack of kidney water or fluid.

Prana- I don’t think I understood your response. How would doing good deeds help this condition? What do you mean by a 'sadhana to the king of medicines?" what is a sadhana and who is the king?

Formerly Castleva (who are you now? ; ) ) No, I have not been diagnosed by a western doctor. My understanding is that a doctor of TCM may often recognize symptoms in the pulses and tongue before they become bad enough for a western doctor to recognize or need to treat them.
I do not think that I am diseased, but I do have certain minor and not so minor issues (insomnia, for instance) that have been bothering me for some time that I want to address. I feel I’m basically OK in my health now, but don’t want to be scr@wed when I"m older for certain indulgences I took when I was /am younger. Yes, I am aware that thinking you’re sick is a sickness in itself. Why do I think ejaculating weakens me? All the reading I’ve done on TCM, most of the chinese sifus I’ve spoken to, plus I seem to feel/be weaker afterwards. HOnestly, I hope its not true but I fear it is, that ejaculation weakens you. Can you expand on what you mean by chemical build up as a result of taking herbal medicines? Aren’t herbs basically food? Are you referring to the patent medicines or the loose leaf or both? This last part of yours I didn’t understand- “What do you mean by/what patient medicine are you taking?”

As regards the weightlifting, I"m going to continue it because I really enjoy it but I am not lifting heavy weights. My chinese doctor also approved this. Looking forward to more advice, Repulsive Monkey.

thanks and peace all-

10

:confused: I have heard the theory, but I assure you that if ejaculation depletes a finite reserve of jing that can never be replenished–I would have been gone long ago. Either that or I got more than the usual share to begin with.:stuck_out_tongue:

11

“Formerly Castleva (who are you now? ; ) )” What do you mean,eh? :slight_smile: Some kind of an advanced version of this guy? http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=8721 “No, I have not been diagnosed by a western doctor.” I think you might want to. “My understanding is that a doctor of TCM may often recognize symptoms in the pulses and tongue before they become bad enough for a western doctor to recognize or need to treat them.” From this standpoint,there is no physiological connection that we know of in pulse diagnosis (of course pulse diagnosis is scientifically recognized as a good indicator of heart rate but not much else. :slight_smile: )
“I do not think that I am diseased, but I do have certain minor and not so minor issues (insomnia, for instance) that have been bothering me for some time that I want to address.” This is why it is important to be diagnosed properly (you can go as far as seeing a sleep medicine specialist as an example) “I feel I’m basically OK in my health now, but don’t want to be scr@wed when I"m older for certain indulgences I took when I was /am younger.” What happened yesterday influences what goes on today but I´m not sure what you mean. “Yes, I am aware that thinking you’re sick is a sickness in itself.Why do I think ejaculating weakens me? All the reading I’ve done on TCM, most of the chinese sifus I’ve spoken to, plus I seem to feel/be weaker afterwards.” My advice is to not believe everything that once was believed,especially not to take for granted what was claimed to be that way.I understand that you appreciate tcm and there is not much about that for me to say but it is good to be critical at times and see if there is any documented evidence for a particular claim.This kind of thing could hardly be passed on in conventional medicine and would be looked upon very skeptically (it amazes me how it is possible to get people to believe in various things as long as they are presented in a convincing manner) “HOnestly, I hope its not true but I fear it is, that ejaculation weakens you.” Look above.What did reproductive organs evolve for. “Can you expand on what you mean by chemical build up as a result of taking herbal medicines?” Oh,I meant the structure of herbs themselves.We do not often know what herbs consist of and this being the case,it is hard to say whether they can work (or actually what they will ever do) when this is the case. “Aren’t herbs basically food?” Can be I´d say but not necessarily so. "Are you referring to the patent medicines or the loose leaf or both? This last part of yours I didn’t understand- “What do you mean by/what patient medicine are you taking?” " I asked this since I was actually pretty confused/ignorant about what you classify as patent medicine,bottled pills or similar etc.

12

The issue is can yang be revived?

The answer is of course it can. But, you need to make several commitment. Beside practicing some celibacy, you need to rest the mind. In fact this is the biggest issue. In TCM, the brain is directly linked to kidney. The damage/stress to kidney can be reflected in memory problem, attention span issues, etc.

To the advise you have already receive, I’ll add avoid excessive “stimulation” of the mind. keep it in a calm and relax state if possible.

Alleviate stress on the mind, and you will also alleviate the stress is on the kidney.

wm

13

Is there any basis on the fact that through excessive ejaculation your health is diminished?

Is there any information out there that proves this to be true? i.e. Do porn stars have shorter, or less healthy lives than the average man or woman?

It would be interesting to find such statistics. I do remember reading that women can become addicted to semen, and experience withdrawal symptoms, almost as if it was a drug… and something about the women who have regular sex (without condoms) are less likely to be depressed or whatever mental influence occurs.

Wilhelm Reich, a famous psychologist (who later was jailed and had his books burned after scientifically proving the existence of lifeforce energy, amongst its influence in the universe) had claimed to figure out the function of the orgasm as he said, and proved that this “libido” energy as Sigmund Freud called it (or ORGONE in his case… or Chi/Ki/Prana in other cultures) does indeed change its regular flow through your body, to end up being excreted through the fluids. But, whether or not this also signifies the permanent loss of some sexual energy, and life is a seperate matter.

14

"Is there any basis on the fact that through excessive ejaculation your health is diminished?

Is there any information out there that proves this to be true? i.e. Do porn stars have shorter, or less healthy lives than the average man or woman?

It would be interesting to find such statistics. I do remember reading that women can become addicted to semen, and experience withdrawal symptoms, almost as if it was a drug… and something about the women who have regular sex (without condoms) are less likely to be depressed or whatever mental influence occurs."

Good questions.
This is what I´ve been asking to a degree at least.
I think this loss of- or harm has more to do with some ancient taoist idea having to do with forces of nature.

"Wilhelm Reich, a famous psychologist (who later was jailed and had his books burned after scientifically proving the existence of lifeforce energy, amongst its influence in the universe) had claimed to figure out the function of the orgasm as he said, and proved that this “libido” energy as Sigmund Freud called it (or ORGONE in his case… or Chi/Ki/Prana in other cultures) does indeed change its regular flow through your body, to end up being excreted through the fluids. "

I´m not entirely sure whether you´re kidding or you are serious about this stuff (like some)
Let´s put it this way;
Freud´s books were burned by nazi´s.Freud though,while rather controversial and a great deal of his “theories” being debunked by modern psychology and some “theories” to the direction of “interpretation of dreams” can hardly be considered theories.
What he should be given credit for,was the discovery of unconcious.
After having realized this,it is safe to take such with a grain of salt.
Funnily it would seem that Freud himself,accused of pseudoscience,did give little credit to Reich´s “science” (knowing Freud though,he did not seem to be very friendly towards those who broke up with his ways)
Reichian therapy goes there with astropsychology.

15

“I´m not entirely sure whether you´re kidding or you are serious about this stuff (like some)”

Ah, yes. My previous post does seem to contain an unintentional tint of ambiguous bias. I do fully believe in most of the teachings from the East, for I have no reason to doubt it. Unless, of course I took a purely (modern) scientific approach.

Though, science seems to be beneficial in the long run, I am all too aware of its greatest flaw… the scientists. They hold true to one vision of the mechanics of the universe, and only change minutely. Any drastic change in the view of the universe, or inventions that fully destroy the logic behind conventional theory will be ridiculed, and ultimately suppressed.

We could easily have been tens of centuries ahead of where we are now, had the majority not contained such an elemental flaw… I think it’s seed is jealousy, which shows the world itself in the form of ignorance, and ridicule.

PhantomFighter

16

I wonder what you are suggesting now.

“Ah, yes. My previous post does seem to contain an unintentional tint of ambiguous bias. I do fully believe in most of the teachings from the East, for I have no reason to doubt it. Unless, of course I took a purely (modern) scientific approach.”

I realize teachings from the East do fascinate you,they used to fascinate me too.
I´m a bit concerned when you say that you fully believe most of the teachings from the East (East-not being defined very well)
Trying to develop a decent picture of “teachings from the East” in my Western brain,I believe I can safely say that a teaching or two from that very direction can be of use,and also that they can also be of little use (now it depends where you´re taking something to.I posit that to rationally examine certain “teachings” does not necessarily embrace them)

“Though, science seems to be beneficial in the long run, I am all too aware of its greatest flaw… the scientists. They hold true to one vision of the mechanics of the universe, and only change minutely. Any drastic change in the view of the universe, or inventions that fully destroy the logic behind conventional theory will be ridiculed, and ultimately suppressed.”

It seems to me you are not among the science camp then.
Of course I would be delighted to see your evidence for this and also how this relates.
If this is supposed to relate to the fraud that we discussed earlier,I´m afraid you may have to reconstruct your definition of science.

17

OK- went to see my TCM doctor today- she felt my pulses and told me I still have Yin deficiency and low chi, and when I asked her big or small, she said 'big."- f@ck. Anyway, that being the case, I’ve been planning on starting regular weightlifting (not too heavy), judo, and karate, a couple times a week each, in the near future. Would that be contra-indicated for one in my condition? Or beneficial? Thanks-

18

nothingness-

If you were diagnosed with yin deficiency and “low chi” (which is chi deficiency), you probably should only do light exercise until you resolve your situation. If you are yin deficient, you probably have (or have the tendency to have) heat signs- dry skin, thirst, night sweats, five palm heat (hot hands, feet, and chest), dry cough, insomnia, irritability, etc, so you need to replenish yin. Be sure to drink an energy drink like Gatorade or Powerade if exercising hard. Did your TCM doc give you a formula? If not, try eating cooling, yin-replenishing foods such as watermelon, pears, spinach, pumkin, etc. Avoid hot, spicy foods. As far as the chi deficiency, you definitely need herbs, but you could do chi kung (qi gong) and simply eat well (be sure to eat meat to build up your chi) and get plenty of rest (try to lower your stress as well). If I were you, I would do lots of Taiji and standing meditation. In addition, in my experience, herbs are better than acupuncture (although AP helps) to tonify the qi and blood, so I hope you got an herbal formula.

And of course, as one who is yin and chi deficient, you need to use restraint in the bedroom arts, if you know what I mean.

I hope this helps.

Jack

19

Nothingness,

I´d take it with a grain of salt.
If you´re concerned,you might want to see a person,a legal,trained professional (unfortunately these days,regulated does not mean qualified anymore) who can diagnose you rationally,or AT LEAST COME UP WITH REAL MEDICAL TERMS TO DESCRIBE YOUR “CONDITION”. :slight_smile:
I´m not saying that your TCM doctor is after your money,I can´t say any of that.But it is known that quacks may want to hint at some either non-existent or non-falsifiable (as in this case) condition/disease,whatever that you have,which in turn means that you need treatment/potion X. :slight_smile: I´m saying this,since I remember that you said something about real doctors not being able (according to “doctors”-) to locate illnesses or beginnings of-,that you may or may not have.
Those pulse diagnoses and hair analyses do NOT have basis in medical science and physiology,of course I´m still ready to be proven wrong (which has not yet happened)

20

Former

Your posts indicate that you have a very sharp mind, but you are plagued by the idealism of youth.

Of course, in it’s purest form, science as an ideal is about truth, (therefore on this level, I agree with you).

But I also agree with PhantomFighter, the problem is that science is done by PEOPLE, and people have agendas. If you think that science is only done in the pure interest of science (validating ideas and pushing the envelope of knowledge), you haven’t been around the block. Most science is conducted via grants (or by private corporations). Have you ever tried to get a grant? Talk about an agenda driven political nightmare!!! If the powers-that-be don’t like you or your ideas, looks like you are SOL. The other side is the private corporations, and they only persue science that generates profits for them.

This is true in all areas of science, but for a great take on modern medical research, please read The Body Electric by Dr. Robert Becker (he’s an orthopedic surgeon if I remember correctly). He was/is a pioneer in the field of limb regeneration and conducted facinating experiments with incredible implications, but had to struggle for every penny to do them. Check it out…

What do you do for a job? I think you would make a great scientist. Maybe you could push for the pure advancement of knowledge.

Jack