Another challenge

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

This question could go on the main board, but I know everyone here so well so i want to keep it in the family.

This has to do with the age old ritual called “ti guan.”
That is when someone comes to the school to cross hands.

This actually happens to me several times a year, and usually I accept.
I just don’t mention it here since I think it will make me look like a wacko.

Most always it is in friendly terms, and there is no anger or ego.
Sometimes it is hard contact and sometimes it isn’t.
I win some and lose some.

The reason I mention this challenge is because I didn’t accept and I wonder about what criteria exist for accepting challenges.

This guy comes off as a brawler who likes to pick fights and beat people up.
he bragged how he was a factory manager in Bangledesh and would fight the workers if they didn’t work hard enough.
So we are not talking about a model of Confucian virtue here.

So I am in the middle of teaching a young girl MA on campus debating if I should fight.

Of course I will learn from this battle, but it is going to be an ugly fight.
I can tell that it will go down to the wire.
This is a guy who is inherently angry and needs some sort of release.

So now I have to work myself up to go and destroy this person just because he has a problem.

So I ask myself, why should I take part in this guys dementia when I don’t have to?

Feel free to put in your 2 cents.

BTW, the last guy I fought, just before I came to the US last month was very polite.
No ego, just wants to try fighting with someone who can fight.
It is funny how when two people are like this there is no(almost) anger in hitting or getting hit very hard or painfully.

2

Tainan, imho, I wouldn’t bother with him.

In a friendly match, whether low contact or high contact, the end goal is knowledge and learning, just as you have said.

This guy doesn’t sound like his goal is either of those. He is only seeking to enlarge his ego by beating a known martial figure. You would gain nothing by beating him or losing to him.

If, however, he continues to press the issue to the point of attacking you…fug his azz up good.

3

Re: Another challenge

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
[B]
This has to do with the age old ritual called “ti guan.”

This guy comes off as a brawler who likes to pick fights and beat people up.
he bragged how he was a factory manager in Bangledesh and would fight the workers if they didn’t work hard enough. [/b]

First, I don’t think this is a “ti guan”, when you said “ti guan”, I think someone is trying to beat up a teacher to close down a school. Someone who is an established teacher who is beating a new teacher up to eliminate the competition or a new teacher coming in to a new area and need to beat up an establish teacher to establish his credibility as a fighter. There’s an intent to hurt the teacher and the school. Well, may be this guy falls in the second category of a new guy in town and looking to make a name for himself.

The guy as you described seem to be a guy that’s just looking for a fight in a situation which he won’t be arrested for assualt & battery. I mean if he used to fight against his factory worker (if that’s true), what is the worker supposed to do? Beat him and lose the facotory job or take a beating a keep the factory job (Bangledesh has a high unemployment rate,so a job is very important). Is the worker going to report on him and get fired?

BTW, did this happen in Taiwan?

I don’t think you should accept the challenge, but if you do, be careful. He probably does silat and probably intent to do you harm (especially if he keep pestering you).

Not to say you can’t take him but don’t take this guy lightly.

wm

4

To fight ot not to fight…

This reminded me of one time when GM Chiu got challenged. He didn’t want to fight the guy. When the guy come, GM Chiu said I needed to warm up and he took a stone lock and started flinging it (doing all the nice moves including the elbow thing.) The guy saw this and declined to fight. So the moral of this is that there are ways to “persuade” people not to fight you. It is also a fair warning to the guy because he “knew” what he is in for. :wink:

Personally, avoid fighting him. If the fight has some meaningful purpose for both parties (ie saving lives), it is all worth it even if you lose terribly. If it is about you may get some experience and even better your fighting ability, then you may be falling for the same ego trip trap that he is going through. It is a lose lose situation. There is a difference between a teacher and a fighter. A teacher learns when to and when not to fight. A fighter fights regardless for his identity. Unless you have a serious identity crisis. I don’t see the point in fighting this fight. I believe Kung Fu is for becoming a better person through reasoning not the other way arround. It is think first before acting not fight first and then reason.

Anyway, I agreed with WM’s observation and advice. If negociation or persuasion wouldn’t work and you have to fight him, take him out with all the might that you’ve got. No if or and or buts. Make sure, before hand, that he understands it will be pure destruction. It is either you or him standing.

Warmest regards

Mantis108

PS It would be a good idea also to sought advice from Shrfu Shr before you decided to take on this particular challenge. That way you pretty much covered all bases.

5

Just dropping in my $.02 worth.

You have no way of knowing if this person will press charges after the fight is done (if he loses).

Remember, your in a country where fighting is pretty much illegal and in most states they are harder on Martial Artists then regular brawlers (some states require you register yourself as a lethal weapon).

My recommendation would be to just report this guy to the authorities if he comes around again. Let the police deal with this him. (besides, does he think he’s in a Bruce Lee or Shaw Brothers movie?)

6

Albino Mantis,

You’re talking about US states, right?

Tainan Mantis lives in Taiwan. Also from what I’ve heard of him, he can handle himself pretty well in a fight.

7

Taiwan has rules too. It is illegal to engage in private fights. The rules might have relax in the past two decades after lifting of martial laws, but the general principles still applies.

Of course, if the fight is between gentlemen and after the fight, no one say anything, no authority will bother. But, I question whether this guy is a gentleman. A fight with him will not prove anything. If it goes badly for him, he might come back at Tainan with a lawsuit.

Tainan,

You probably should discuss this situation with your sifu like Mantis108 suggested.

wm

8

Tainan Mantis

I like the arm conditioning idea. A so called Sifu challenged me to this once saying he would “inspire” me to get back into training. One smash of shocking ging into his forearm made him look like a babbling fool in insane agony. I hope he learned some humility next time.

I am sure your forearms are metalized. Sounds like a good way to deal with him if you must.

If not then an internal palm strike to the sternum to make him drop with no bruises, no lawsuits or arguments. Ruthlesness echoed back without thought. It was not you that provoked him, it was his ego that interupted your palm strike. You are just the messenger of justice, the person that is not sweating in a Bangladesh slave den fearing his brutality.

People like that are wolves. Once they smell the scent of fear they try to corner their prey. Even though it is not fear at all on your part, but mercy, and the wish not to crush them to a trembling pulp, they dont know it. They only respect pain.

Now i’m sounding like a whacko :-)))

It is your choice my good friend. I hope you no longer have to deal with this person. But if you must, then I hope you leave no bruises.

Warmest Regards Always

Buddhapalm

9

challenge

I think we would all like to see you kick the crap out of the guy but if the guy is a nut case it probably wouldn’t be a friendly challenge.
I also like the idea of a few tests of conditioning or something first.
I don’t think he should issue a challenge while you are teaching a young student.
Let us know what happens!

10

Originally posted by SaMantis
[B]Albino Mantis,

You’re talking about US states, right?

Tainan Mantis lives in Taiwan. Also from what I’ve heard of him, he can handle himself pretty well in a fight. [/B]

SaMantis,

I missed that bit earlier. Sorry for the confusion. :frowning:

I do still stand by my thoughts that the challenge shouldn’t be taken up. I don’t see where accepting a challenge in this day and age will accomplish anything.

A match between two people seeking to hone their skill, with no ego attached to the outcome, is a different thing. But a stranger challenging you, with an agenda you don’t know, even if you are an awesome fighter, leaves you open to potential trouble. Why risk it.

Well, that’s my opinion, fighting for ego isn’t worth, it’ll just set you up to get hurt in the long run.

11

this guy sounds like a dipsh*t. plain and simple. he brags about beating up his employees. he is not a gentlman. he is just trying to feed his ego. i wouldn’t take him lightly, he might be serious. i like the arm pounding and stone lock ideas. but if this guy just keeps on and keeps on pestering you to fight, kick his a$$.

i think it would be a good idea to talk with GM Shr.

12

Re: Another challenge

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
[B]So I ask myself, why should I take part in this guys dementia when I don’t have to?

Feel free to put in your 2 cents.
[/B]

This may be more like $.01 cents…

Just say you only fight in defense of yourself. You have no interest in hostile Martial Arts confrontations. Tell him to go to find someone else to test HIS fighting skill on, and that there are plenty of other people to satisfy HIS cravings for combat. Tell him your flattered he would choose you, but that he has issues. TELL HIM THIS FROM STRIKING DISTANCE. Even if you don’t strike him at this time, talk to him this from striking distance.

Some bullies will pop $h1t after this and let you be, and some will press on. If he falls into the latter category, and a fight seems inevitable, if you think you’re ready, strike first (it may be the only chance you get) and try to BEAT THE POPE OUT OF HIM.

Fighting with hostility Sux like a vacuum!

It is no longer one of those friendly combat exchanges (there IS such a thing). It is a street fight, whether it happens in your school, or at a Bus Stop.

I had a guy tell me that he could easily beat me up one time (I think he could have too). I didn’t know the guy, and it wasn’t friendly. He was dead serious. I told him that even if he beat me up at this time, that it wouldn’t be over. I told him if he hit me, he’d have to watch his back, because I wouldn’t care if he was walking with his mother, his brothers, or at a shopping mall, I would get him back if I had to run his a$$ over (I was pretty pi$$ed off). He apologized to me and walked away.

I haven’t seen the guy since.

He was only looking for someone to beat up for the night, and thought everything would be over and done with after that. When he saw the (shall I say) dimensions of taking advantage of me, he reconsidered…

Anyway, I didn’t get hurt by him, and he didn’t get hurt by me.

You can’t do that in every situation…

On another occasion, I just admitted defeat to a guy that I KNOW wouldn’t have defeated me in a fight, and he let me be. Some people’s pride won’t let them do something like this. Maybe I don’t have any pride. Still, I didn’t get hurt by him, and he didn’t get hurt by me.

But I digress…

On a final note, if you think you don’t stand a chance of defeating this person, try to psychologically steer the confrontation into an intense, possibly painful, but non-hostile clash of Martial Skill. One more corny example… I’ll try to make it short…

I’m walking home from the store. I get stopped by one of the neighborhood rough-necks, out of prison about 3 weeks, who challenges me to a fight in front on his cronies. It started out serious. We square off long enough for ME to realize I’m gonna get my a$$ kicked, and HIM to realize it isn’t gonna be a walk in the park. He stops, a bit winded, and says “you’re not ready for this, kid”. I say “I’m not”. He said “you’ll just get hurt”. I said “most likely”. He gets pats on the back from his posse, I pick up my groceries and go home.

Anyway, I didn’t get hurt by him (except my pride a bit, in this incident), and he didn’t get hurt by me.

You can’t do that in every situation…

If you think a confrontation is inevitable with this bully, train hard while you have the time. Train to give a beating, and train to take a beating…

I’m on your side Tainan Mantis! My prayers are with you! No matter what you decide, no matter the outcome!

13

Albino Mantis,

it’s cool – in fact I agree with you, ego is not a reason to fight.

And IMO if TM doesn’t have to fight him, he shouldn’t – doesn’t matter whether he gets beaten down or not, he’ll still be the same idiot ******* who dropped a challenge in the first place. He’ll go back to Bangladesh bragging that he won, even if he didn’t.

So if TM doesn’t care what the guy tells other people about the fight (or non-fight), then it doesn’t matter. So don’t fight. Let him blow his own horn until he’s spent and goes away.

14

Before I posted this thread I debated with myself…
“Should I put a personal problem on a place like this?”

I am very happy I did because the variety of answers has helped me crystalize my thoughts.

It seems that for the most part there are 2 types of people who want to cross hands with me.

The good kind, or kind I like seeks to;
test skill in private.
No need for crowds to watch.
No desire to find a winner.

Which made me realize that I feel happy when my opponent finds a way to apply his technique on me successfully. When the skill outsmarts me.

This seems like a love of the art form. To see the beuty of skill regardless of can do it to who.
As a rule, it seems that he will feel the same way, or at least respect the ability of technique.

In a contest to determine the winner(where the crowd may be) we feel that a new bond was created between us after the fight and the handshake becomes very emotional.

I am happy to say most people are like this.

The bad kind;
likes to make a spectacle of himself in public.

When confronted with seperior skill or technique feels that somehow it makes him less of a man.

Makes himself feel better at the expense of makeing someone else feel worse.
Thus enjoys inciting fear in others.

So, the final conclusion, if this idiot ever presses for a fight, I will accept, but in private with only skilled MArtists as witness.
In fact this is how it usually is, with my partner or elder watching to coach me on my good and bad points afterwards.

As my Shrhsiung said," He won’t be intersted in the comparison of skills, just the chance to brag about that which never happened."

Deepest thanks to all who wrote in both public and private.

15

open skull

Shortly after the wierdo showerd up I mentioned it to my shrfu.
His immediate gut response was," Great! Go fight him."
But then when I explained that this fellow wasn’t a real MA and just someone who thrills in beating up others shrfu’s atitude was different.
After all the expletives he explained the philosophy that MA only test skills with MA, people who have devoted themselves to the art.
In the case of this guy I only need say that my kung fu is for self defense only…
Then, as my shrfu continued, if he gets funny I can feel free to defend myself by beating him up.

The End.

An old MA injury has caused me a tumor in my middle ear.
Today I have to enter the hospital and stay for a week as they open the back of my head and remove it.

When I return from the hospital I will let everyone know.

16

TAINAN

Thats bad news mate. I know you will get through this though.
Good luck with your recovery and best of wishes to your family and Shifu who will be very worried for you.
Yours,
Brendan

We all want him back soon right?

17

Tainan Mantis

You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

18

best of luck tainan,

from what i know, most middle ear tumors are benign, so i anticipate that you will have a fortunate outcome. keep us posted!

19

Tainan,

I keep my fingers crossed for you!

See you back soon here on the board!

20

Sorry to here that my friend. You have my best wishes.