Main Entry: 1mas·ter
Pronunciation: 'mas-t&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English magister & Old French maistre, both from Latin magister; akin to Latin magnus large – more at MUCH
Date: before 12th century
1 a (1) : a male teacher (2) : a person holding an academic degree higher than a bachelor’s but lower than a doctor’s b often capitalized : a revered religious leader c : a worker or artisan qualified to teach apprentices d (1) : an artist, performer, or player of consummate skill (2) : a great figure of the past (as in science or art) whose work serves as a model or ideal
2 a : one having authority over another : RULER, GOVERNOR b : one that conquers or masters : VICTOR, SUPERIOR <in this young, obscure challenger the champion found his master> c : a person licensed to command a merchant ship d (1) : one having control (2) : an owner especially of a slave or animal e : the employer especially of a servant f (1) dialect : HUSBAND (2) : the male head of a household
3 a (1) archaic : MR. (2) : a youth or boy too young to be called mister – used as a title b : the eldest son of a Scottish viscount or baron
4 a : a presiding officer in an institution or society (as a college) b : any of several officers of court appointed to assist (as by hearing and reporting) a judge
5 a : a master mechanism or device b : an original from which copies can be made; especially : a master phonograph record or magnetic tape
The above makes conversations like this a lot more interesting. Is Bruce Lee a master? Well, according to definition, yes. Is he a master in the context of martial arts? Not sure, never met him, he never officially finished a system so the claim would be hard to make. he did teach. hmmmmm…
Borrowing you favored quoting technique, you said :“The evidence is there. Bruce may have not been the best but he was good. I’d say equal to and better than most of the “masters” today.”
As for the UFC, I’d have to say while I find some of the guys to be big and fierce in their aproach, I find them to be terribly sloppy and when push comes to shove they result in brawling. Now, I respect any man in front of me because I know one good shot and it can all easily be over, but with that said I am not afraid of the bigger man (I myself am 215lbs) – in fact I prefer them, so I know it was technique and mental ability and not strenght. I don’t think I’m ready yet, because my knew training has exposed weaknesses that weren’t apparant before or simply not taken serious enough. Not until I feel ready, and not until I feel I can go in and give a proper demonstration, will I do so.
I’ll say this though, the more I learn the more I realize how terribly complicated a mess fighting has been made to look by past Martial Arts experience. I’m learning now that one does not have to do as much, just make what one does count (as in, not opening with A4 in chess … quite silly and wastefull).
Anyway, the best to all of you. I was playing Devil’s advocate a bit in this thread, because, hey, I used to sit in front of the TV with my eyes glued with a PB&A sandwich and a glass of milk anytime Bruce Lee was shown on channel 5 back in the day. BUT, even then, I liked the old school Hong Kong films better – I was an Issin-Ryu guy then, but what they did was different. I always thought Bruce was representing karate when I wa s akid and wondered why it was called kung fu – it looked like what I was learning: side kicks, round house, pull back punching.
This thread though has made me feel nostalgic, and I’m going off to buy the one flick of his I liked, the show down at the Colloseum with Chucky.
nothing funnier than watching a “badass” forms monkey or point fighter step up on the leitai for the first time (I’ve been that guy) eyes wide open. hands down at his sides, still reeling from the last attack. haymaker slapping… memories of an asswhuppin..
From that day on the real education of fighting starts. you won’t worry so much about the phoenix eye fist and worry more about an effective jab/uppercut/cross combo and a mean side kick
but … a lifetime in the martial arts is more than just full contact fighting. there is a window of time that allows you to do this and then its gone and you still need to keep the body healthy, flexible and invigorrated. this is where your training will come full circle.
Actual Shaolin Tiger and Legend, I agree with your views on training. I believe that’s how it should be. Upper cut, cross, hooh, those are powerful punches. I believe point sparring is quite poisanous.
Shoilin Dynasty, I apoligize if you sense ego coming from me. Yes, I am stoked about the workd that has opened up to me. The point I was trying to make, and didn’t mention anything about challenge macthes and my teacher, you asked me, was that I honestly believe, without question, that my teacher is far superior to Bruce Lee, not even comparable. Quite laughable (my teacher was actually a training brother of his though under Yip Man). Two different types of people all together.
This is silly. I have no desire to prove anything to anyone here, though I’ll glad trade hands with any one here if the opportunity should arise – I love to mix it up, what better what to learn. It actuually looks like I’ll be in Baltimore on the 28th and wanted to give Ralek a heads up for dinner and maybe some fun.
Anyway, best of luck to all of you.
Ray
Ps. I do have to say, this is the first time I’ve been told that coming from New York City I am nieve about the rest of the country. I would also agrue that NYC CHinatown is not a bad start if you were looking for talent on a block for block basis compared else where. But that’s beside’s the point.
These Bruce Lee threads, anything remotely connected to Wing Chun, always seem to cause problems.
I would say from a logical position, I would have to say that Bruce was never a Master of Wing Chun, and in his own mind was a master of JKD. If one can master JKD then he seems likely to of, however this by no means ranks him along side Masters of other arts. Mastery is not the same for all arts when you think of what they all (proport) to consist of. I think its very difficult to make corrolations between all arts as there is plenty of overlap and uniqueness in varying measures. It’s not a “cut and paste” affair at all. I feel that Bruce Lee was talented, had a sense of determinatyion for developing himself and in trying to teach others some of the ideas that he felt he understood in his training, but ultimately was more famous (or at least going that way!) for his exhibitionism in his films than for his mastery of a self-made art.
from the little that I have read and understood, JKD is nothing revelatory or new, but ideas that can almost wholly be found through all Taoist/Confucian/Buddhist text.
It could just be the fact that it’s hard to put your thoughts on the internet without misinterperting them but…I get the feeling from allot of your posts that you feel that anything not from NY chinatown or your sifu is worthless. While the NY chinatown is a good place to train and there is allot of skill there it is not the end to everything martial. It’s good that you feel that your sifu is better than bruce, I feel the same way about my sigung being far superior to Bruce.
The fact remains that a mature person in the martial arts will give respect when respect is due. I don’t worship Bruce lee as a martial arts god but I do respect his philosophy same as I do many other martial artists.
I certainly respect good martial arts no matter where its from or who is performing it. I actuallt think there is a lot of bad MA in NYC Chinatown, as well as else where.
Well, I got to go and get some work done. Defintely made more out of this thread then was necessary and I knew it went south when Legend and Shoalin Tiger implied that perhaps me or we are point sparring, gi wearing, aluminum sword swinging Wu Shu players. Might as well call my mother ugly.
One thing about NY chinatown…they got some good ass food…I also saw some black guy try to fight an asian guy there…the asian guy ran into his store and came out with a CLEAVER…u pretty much saw TRACK AND FIELD COMMERCIAL at this point!!! CLEAVER FU!!!