Ok, so a friend lent me his special edition dvd “Enter the Dragon”. They have an interview with Mr Lee that I have seen before but this time I decided to pay attention to what he was saying.
Here is what I got from it. First of all Mr lee, may or may not be the best martial artist of all time, but what he had to say made a lot of sense from a martial arts perspective. I am not so sure I agree with his idea that of classical martial arts is crystaline, as it should always be growing, on its own and within us. Otherwise he said some pretty sensible things.
The other thing that occurred to me is that JKD would have to be bull! Now, if you study JKD, and you find this offensive, I would appreciate some reasonable view on this. I dont want to get into a flame war. But I feel this way because Mr lee espoused the belief that the ultimate martial way was no way at all, fighting without fighting, avoid the classical mess and all that.n JKD is a “crystalization” of what he had thought of and put down in some notebooks. It makes me wonder if he meant to create his own system or not.
By the way, He said something that supports Wong Jack Mans side of ‘thier’ fight. Bruce admitted he had a temper…take it for what you will…
n JKD is a “crystalization” of what he had thought of and put down in some notebooks.
In my honest opinion yes at times. JKD has become a “style”
which is why I hesitate to say I do it. When someone does JKD they are doing the style that stops hits, traps, and gets into trapping range. It’s seen as a standup art.
I don’t do that. So I guess I can’t call myself that.
But my stuff is much more than just judo so I’m stuck. 
I have no art.
Ryu
RED…I have to agree with everything u posted! I’m kinda of an expert when it comes to BRUCE LEE…reading and watching all of his biography and even studied how he fought. In the beginning Bruce made some arrogant statements about various arts…cma, japanese etc…he saw that many students were being SOLD short…clones…he talk about the classical mess…being certain styles were not combat effectiveness…he made MISTAKEs also. Eventually he came into his own or his style of fighting like Michael Jordan would come into his style of playing. Bruce style of fighting is based on INTERCEPTION( read Hawkin Cheung and Jesse Glover interview )…he could not GROUND AND POUND…he could not BRAWL…he INTERCEPTED. That was it! Now u have to factions in JKD. U have one group that believes the JKD is a truly effective style…the INTERCEPTING FIST etc…and u have another group that lives off of Bruce’s philosophy of finding your own way! In a way it’s good they have both.
Bruce was a hot tempered guy. As a kid he was very hyper. As he grew older he was more normal…that’s what happen when u have kids and a wife.
"JKD is a “crystalization” "
YES! Every time I see a JKD school it reminds me of when Bruce said “The original founder starts out with hypothosis and soon it becomes the gospel truth”.
I always remeber that when I hear a JKD student tell me about being “non traditional”(I beleive being “non classical” has become the new tradition). Then they start quoteing the Tao of JKD like it’s the bible. When I hear allot of people talk about JKD philosophy it seems like most people miss the mark.
But what do I know, I am just trying to be a human being:D
Agreed. JKD has become extremely ironic.
I have the utmost respect for Mr Lee, he seemed to be comfortable with who he was, and although his ego may have got the btter of him at times, I think he had the right idea, for himself anyway.Its funny, I do Wing Chun, and we are always working on rooting, so whenever I see a persondoing martial arts, I always look at how rooted they look. Watching Bruce Lee, even in a movie, he bounced around a lot but when he was ready to punch or kick, he definitely found his root. Now I watch some of the local JKD guys and these guys are always moving and bouncing around.
I am not trying to slam JKD here, thats for sure, if it seems to work for someon then great, but I think that Mr Lee may have cringed at the way it is being taught today. I think the point that has been missed is that Mr Lee seems to intend that each MA person must find thier own path. IMO, if he were still around, I think we would have seen his style of teaching approaching something very freestyle, where if you go to a Lee school you would learn the techniques and build upon it in a way that works for you.
Then Ryu, you’ve acheived JKD.
One thing I’ve learned about life, the martial arts, raising kids and pretty much anything else, it’s about the journey not the destination.
The most interesting things about Lee was when he was trying to break into Hollywood, and when he was trying to find an approach to martial arts given his athletic skills, his big ego and his limitations.
I think many people today are about the destination, in other words they don’t want to have to go through the process that made Lee, that makes a Inosanto, a Vunak, a Joon Rhee, a Chuck Norris, a Yip Man or any other great in their field. They see the result, a moment in the persons journey, and mistake that for the destination.
It’s the followers who preserve (chrystalize) things not the leaders.
red5angel,
i think there are a lot of people within JKD that would be inclined to agree with you.
hell, dan inosanto himself seems to have had enough, in some sense.
it is ironic, but it’s also fairly inevitable. i think his idea was a good one. and in many ways, it still permeates how martial arts are taught today (though i think it was less a revolution than a reminder of how things once were). but whenever you’re talking about a large group of people, some people are going to get it and some people aren’t. the larger the group, the more members who don’t get it. and so the misunderstanding gets propagated.
so who gets it and who doesn’t? that’s another question.
my head hurts.
stuart b.
Well, if we learn one thing today, let’s learn that BRUCE LEE is DEFINITELY NOT the best martial artists of all time. Most popular, well known, OK, but certainly not the best by far.
As for a “classical mess.” I’ll translate classical as traditional. and traditional as true to the source of any art. I’m thinking the founder of Ba Gua, even Hung Gar, even Wing Chun. Now. This may seem like a mess to someone who did not only bow out before completing his chosen art, but left the dance before the music really started.
JKD, well, a good fighter is a good fighter and give him some tools and he becomes a better fighter. I view JKD, and I could be wrong, as Wing Chun trapping and Chi Sau, grappling and Silat. I never seen Silat except in magazines so I can’t comment and I’m sure there is more in there. I always thought though that one would need to spend time with any one of those arts to get good, never mind take a little from here and there. If someone gives it out so redilly to be borrowed, its probbaly not that valuable to them.
What did Bruce get? What do these guys who hop from school to school or seminar to seminar get? I don’t know, I’m not them.
I like to find quality, the best around, and then associate with it hoping some of it rubs off on me. To hop here, skip there, one is too busy to focus and let thing settle. This is just my view on mixing too many styles, but I stand by my comment that BRUCE LEE is probbaly the MOST OVER RATED martial artist of all time. Maybe he was OK, but there are guys out there that are simply amazing, and no hi-pitch creams, high side kicks or nunchucks can take away from the crafts they sharing with the world.
RED…whoa…u see JKD guys bouncing around??? Very unusual…
JKD is still evolving!
Don’t forget that there are several “branches” of the JKD family.
JKD Concepts:
Sifu Dan Inosanto
Burton Richardson
Paul Vunak
Larry Hartsell
JKD Nucleus:
Ted Wong
Dan Lee
Chris Kent
Richard Bustillo
Original JKD:
Lamar Davis
Gary Dill
JKD Fighting Strategies:
Joe Lewis
Jerry Beasley
Mike Krivka (http://www.martialartskoncepts.com) now teaches at my school and I see first hand how the concept guys are evolving. Inosanto is a grappler under the Machados! BJJ, Shootfighting, Combat submission (Eric Paulson stuff) etc.
Just as it should be.
EF- The people who “style hop” need to take a closer look at Bruce’s life. Looking at various sources I came to the conclusion that Bruce didn’t try to create a new style. It seems he evolved more naturally and gradual. His source of information was cut off when he moved to the USA, if he had stayed in Hong Kong longer he probally would have stayed with WC longer. I think Bruce was a master of his art. Was he better than traditional masters? I think he was about equal to them he was just alittle more confident as opposed to the traditional chinese attitude of being humble. In that way he was american.
Bruce only really taught people who already had martial arts experience. So he acknowledged the need to have a base to build (or remove) from.
As for being overrated, I find most martial artists go through 3 phases
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Bruce lee is god
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Bruce Lee was only a 3 year WC student who had no idea about Traditional arts and the power you get from them. Bruce is an idiot
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Bruce knew his stuff, boy was I wrong in both instances before. He was a good martial artist. He was both traditional and modern. His ideas are what most good martial artists think even though he may word them differently.
Evolution fist- You said you’ve only been with your teacher a year right? I think you should open up a little bit, your still going through that “My teacher is invincible” phase which will wear off like it obviously did in your previous teachers/styles. You have the tendacy to elevate your teacher above the level of being human and shut out everything else. That’s a mistake for anybody Bruce lee or Chan Bong.
LEGEND, I see alot of them, atleast around here, imitating Mr Lees’ little hop step thing. I think the principle behind it is to keep moving, hard to hit a moving target sort of thing.
“imitating Mr Lees’ little hop step thing.”
I see people trying to “bounce” all the time to. That footwork was used to be mobile. People shouldn’t be hoping to hop. I heard Bruce was really still during sparring until he wanted to move around the opponent of during defense or somthing like that. Like someone said before he was grounded.
Ive said it before:
Judge Bruce Lee, his teachings and his art by the quality of HIS students. Bruce didnt teach in huge rented gyms that could fit 40 people training at one time. He didnt paint JKD in big red letters on the door and accept any kid with 40 bucks a month as a student, 80 bucks gets you the platinum package. Most of Bruce’s “JKD” students (the vast majority) had a lengthly background in some prior “classical” art (mostly Ed Parkers students.) Ted Wong, who his MA journey with Bruce Lee and JKD is a very good example of Bruce’s teachings. Also notice that not until very recently did Mr Wong start teaching ‘publicaly’ by which he means putting on seminars, he doesnt have his own school anywhere.
Red:
Remember to always keep in mind that Bruce Lee didnt write any of the Bibles of JKD, they are only his published notes. Also remember that he was at times and actor and one of those times would be when he gave that interview (I have the dvd too.) Im not saying that to discredit Mr Lee or pad his words so that JKD looks better or anything, but it is definitly a factor that should be considered (Mr lee being an actor.)
Like I said, Buce Lee didnt write Tao of JKD as a book, just published notes, but be sure to take to heart the last line whenever quoting Bruce Lee or considering Bruce’s JKD: JKD is just a name.
Wierd. Listening to Bruce’s theories usually makes me want to be ill. I wish I could understand what the big deal is. Some of the people affiliated with him are very cool though.
“Listening to Bruce’s theories usually makes me want to be ill.”
Why? C’mon share with the group
Yenhoi, dont get me wrong, I respect Mr Lee for his ability, and his passion. IMO I think he had a good idea, that probably suited him personally. Of course I am also one of those who believes Wong Jack Man is probably telling more of the truth about thier confrontation as well!
All I was saying is that I hear a lot about JKD and it seems it has gone in a direction that goes against Mr Lees beliefs.
My opinion on Bruce Lee is that he had great athletic ability, and he was a good fighter. His martial Arts could have used some work. He never finished formal training, and it may have helped him. His ego was large, and this sometimes got in the way of what he was trying to accomplish. He had a passion for the martial arts and he wanted to be good, and it seemed he wanted to make other people good. As much as I enjoy his films, I admire him for his passion, not his skill. I have seen people with more skill.
Shaolindynasty - exactly what I am talking about. If you watch Bruce Lee in his films and in some of the rare tapes of him practicing, he bounces a little, but when it comes time to deliver a blow, he is firmly grounded and stuck to the ground.
ShaolinTiger00 is right. JKD is a term that can be used to mean a style, or it can be a group of concepts. Actually, the “Style” of JKD illustrates very much the concepts. A good book on the"style" JKD is “Wing Chun Kung Fu and Jeet Kune Do, a Comparison, " by Ted Wong and William Chueng. Anyway, that’s why my teacher, a student of Ted Wong, says he offers “June Fan JKD” to make the distinction that he is teaching Bruce’s fighting methods. Although, I have chosen not to study this, actually I am studying Yip Man wing chun with a few, not all JKD concepts, mostly in the form of training drills, you know, working with the focus mitts, heavy bag, jump rope, air shield, full contact sparring, etc. I know of the"five ways of attack” but I haven’t sat down to figure out what they really are, nor do I really care. I don’t try to use Bruce’s footwork either, or throw punches like a boxer. We have added some extra grappelling practice but I don’t think that relates to JKD, that’s just martial arts in the modern world.
-FJ
Shaolindynasty -
Mostly I’m just causing trouble. 
But since you asked… his martial philosophy is poorly paraphrased Wan Lai Sheng, and he doesn’t manifest it’s principles in his practice. His classical mess routine is meaningless, has become hypocritical, and has allready been said better and implemented more constructively by, for instance, the yiquan and baguazhang schools. His martial research is just insulting - if anyone else waved around the years spent alone in their attic sketching notes in the margins of fencing texts as proof of their physical prowess, they’d be laughed at. And to top it off, his attitude stunk. Despite all this, I’m told he was a pretty good fighter. And he’s certainly associated with some excellent names, such as Inosanto. He was also certainly a good entertainer - all of the fight scenes we have as his legacy are pure cheese.