Lone tiger asked:
Single leg practice? Firstly I am not big on labesl but big on trying to do things correctly and well.
Perhaps you mean practices?? Quite a few. Not an exhaustive list but…
single leg standing
single leg with fook gerk, bong gerk, tan gerk
3.single leg blocking drills
single leg turning drills.
chi gerk
etc.
joy
hmmm..well,
Fukien Wing Chun Bak Hok is Crane,
Yuen Kay San’s WCK, from what a teacher who does that art is snake and crane,
Gulo WCK has animal named techniques, if I’m not mistaken,
Yip Man’s movements are identical to snake and crane techniques found in many other Southern Siu-Lum systems..
and there’s the Siu Lin Tao/Emie snake and crane and..
soooo..you don’t have to call them snake or crane or anything…
or…you can call them anything you like.
it doesn’t change anything, it doesn’t make it more or less effective.
“a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.”
(I call it snake and crane, btw…;-p )
Single leg practice? Firstly I am not big on labesl but big on trying to do things correctly and well.
Perhaps you mean practices?? Quite a few. Not an exhaustive list but…
single leg standing
single leg with fook gerk, bong gerk, tan gerk
3.single leg blocking drills
single leg turning drills.
chi gerk
etc.
joy[/QUOTE]
I think he was lookin’ for “Crane Stance,” or “Gum Gai Duk Lop”
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]I’m not concerned with other lineages outside Ip Man. Tried Foshan Wing Chun once upon a time…rubbish!! [/QUOTE]
So that makes all Foshan Wing Chun, rubbish??
By the way, there are at least half a dozen Wing Chun lineages in Mainland China.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Not my thinking but keep up the good work!!! [/QUOTE]
Thank you I will.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]In my lineage Bil Jee has nothing to do with training the fingers and vital point strikes. [/QUOTE]
And obviously you are not at all interested why another lineage from Mainland China, as the case may be, trains the fingers, uses claw techniques and other animal aspects, as part of its curriculum?
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Maybe Yip Man invented a whole new system.[/QUOTE]
I am sure that you are aware that there are people wondering wether Yip Man taught the complete system, or everything that he was exposed to, in his early years.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]There are no animal blocks in my lineage. Maybe if cranes and snakes should fight humans. [/QUOTE]
Well, I will tell you that usually unarmed combat between snakes and humans, turn out pretty bad for the humans…
As for the cranes, you may be surprised by the power they can generate from their fragile looking bodies…
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Tigers and leopards only bite and maul…how strong are your teeth??[/QUOTE]
Tiger and Leopard TCMA methodologies are not about biting. Sometimes the “kung fu” people in this forum surprise me with their “knowledge”…:rolleyes:
Let me give you a hint, all the animals mentioned so far have a certain “way” about them that humans do not have. That is, they can only attain it after a relatively long term training, with KNOWLEDGABLE sifu. This means that most people who claim to train kung fu - even the animal styles - will have no clue as to what I am talking about.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Animal elements do nothing for Wing Chun and thats why we don’t have them. [/QUOTE]
“We”??? So, now you represent the whole of the Wing Chun family and lineages on the planet? LOL!
Has it not occured to you that you may be missing fundamental aspects from your kung fu practice? Perhaps you should think about it, a little?
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Get a grip!!:D…with your tiger claws!! lol[/QUOTE]
You would NOT want me to get a grip on you with my claws… BELIEVE ME!
[QUOTE=Graham H;1096904]Monkey[/QUOTE]
Wow, that is the first time that I have seen sign their post, with the word “monkey”.
You don’t seem to have high opinion of yourself, Do you?
You didn’t even answer my question 
And you didnt answer mine
[QUOTE=GlennR;1096855]And you didn’t answer mine (questions)[/QUOTE]
Reason being I had already ‘given’ you some answers and thought it would be covered as the thread moves forward…
[QUOTE=GlennR;1096855]Why is it great??[/QUOTE]
“It’s great to see animals represented in Wing Chun, as I feel that it helps us connect more to our Traditional roots in Shaolin.”
[QUOTE=GlennR;1096855]What makes you think WC has roots in Shaolin?[/QUOTE]
Because it DOES according to the verbal traditions of my own Sifu.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1096855]And how does this help WC as an effective self defense system?[/QUOTE]
When we engage animal characteristics into our kung fu, it isn’t just about this hand becomes a claw and this foot becomes a hidden tiger, it’s also because we adopt the strategies of the animal which has already been studied in combat through early Shaolin study.
Having a snake strategy, for example, is great to protect someone else (like a bodyguard) because you will stand your ground and not be distracted, advancing and retreating back to your ‘nest’ quicker than the eye can see. Attacking the nervous system accurately so no follow through (ie. wrestling) is required, especially against group attacks. Expanding yourself to seem larger than you are to absorb the attack. All this stuff, and more, is related to the snake.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1096855]Wouldn’t it be “great” to try it out against other stlyes and situations than live in yesteryear???[/QUOTE]
Yes and no.
I feel that the WCK community would fair better if they exchanged within themselves first because it’s very obvious from this forum and other research I have done that everyone is not on the same songsheet! Then we can gradually build programs that train the best of our fighters to go out into the MMA arena ‘fully euipped’ with the WCK toolbox (to coin an old TN phrase!) so the fighting that is projected and seen is WCK through and through.
That sort of skill level IS acheivable, but it all depends on whether people can work together, like around the World! And personally I think that will never happen unfortunately for the wannabe MMA fighters who leave WCK for better training :o
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1097028]Gulo WCK has animal named techniques, if I’m not mistaken[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, according to what I have researched. And that’s a great example of the language being so important. We have ‘Fook Fu’ Hidden Tiger footwork that is represented in Chum Kiu too, so it isn’t just the Kulo 12/22/40 point methods that uses these terms. They’re present in all good Ip Man WCK imho.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1097028]Single leg practice? Firstly I am not big on labesl but big on trying to do things correctly and well.
Perhaps you mean practices?? Quite a few. Not an exhaustive list but…
single leg standing
single leg with fook gerk, bong gerk, tan gerk
3.single leg blocking drills
single leg turning drills.
chi gerk
etc.
joy[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the list Joy, but if I may I will use just no. 1 as my example.
What is the Chinese term for single leg standing practice?
Coming from the Jun Mo school, this was called ‘Dook Long Jong Lin’ Single Dragon Fundamental Practice, and it is practised throughout the system from wooden man to pole, or in fact anytime you stand on one leg!
Why is it related to the Dragon?? Maybe we should ask the Red Boat people because it is intinsically linked to Opera performance.
FWIW The Ip Man pic I posted IS one of the many Wooden Man Dook Long techniques…
Yes and no.
I feel that the WCK community would fair better if they exchanged within themselves first because it’s very obvious from this forum and other research I have done that everyone is not on the same songsheet! Then we can gradually build programs that train the best of our fighters to go out into the MMA arena ‘fully euipped’ with the WCK toolbox (to coin an old TN phrase!) so the fighting that is projected and seen is WCK through and through.
That sort of skill level IS acheivable, but it all depends on whether people can work together, like around the World! And personally I think that will never happen unfortunately for the wannabe MMA fighters who leave WCK for better training :o[/QUOTE]
Ok, got no problems in regards to your animal connection. Not my thing but if thats your thing full power to you
But youre wrong about the WC exchange program to help WC in the world of MMA
While there’s merit in cross training/ sparring with other WC, youll never achieve high results unless you mix it up with other styles… especially the current MMA guys.
GlennR
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1097044]
You would NOT want me to get a grip on you with my claws… BELIEVE ME!
[/QUOTE]
I’m not in the habit of letting men touch me but if you are ever in my area come on over. I have some nail clippers!!!
GH
…I don’t believe you!!!
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097122]What is the Chinese term for single leg standing practice?
Coming from the Jun Mo school, this was called ‘Dook Long Jong Lin’ Single Dragon Fundamental Practice, and it is practised throughout the system from wooden man to pole, or in fact anytime you stand on one leg![/QUOTE]The general CMA term is ‘gam gai duk lap’ in Cantonese, as mentioned by TenTigers. aka ‘Golden Rooster stands on one leg’.
[SIZE=“3”][/SIZE]
‘duk’ means single/one
‘lap’ means vertical, i.e. standing.
It is more poetic in Chinese. The standard English translation doesn’t do it justice.
The imagery is quite fitting I guess. Roosters strutting about the farmyard occasionally stand on one leg. I can’t see how the dragon comes into it really.
[QUOTE=CFT;1097391]The general CMA term is ‘gam gai duk lap’ in Cantonese, as mentioned by TenTigers. aka ‘Golden Rooster stands on one leg’.
[SIZE=“3”][/SIZE]
‘duk’ means single/one
‘lap’ means vertical, i.e. standing.
It is more poetic in Chinese. The standard English translation doesn’t do it justice.
The imagery is quite fitting I guess. Roosters strutting about the farmyard occasionally stand on one leg. I can’t see how the dragon comes into it really.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing that 
Again, it just proves my point that animal references are ingrained in TCMA. BUT I think what you’re missing is the fact that the line I mentioned, Dook(Duk) Long Jong Lin, IS A WING CHUN KUIT from my own training experience.
I know that learning ‘general’ terms may be of use, especially if you want to converse with other systems, but my point is we are learning Wing Chun, and Wing Chun has its own slang for almost everything. Code-names if you like, to disguise the intent.
The Dragon reference is more linked into the ‘look and feel’ of a Dragons tail ie. having a steady and tight upper leg (representing the base of the tail), but loose and flexible lower leg (representing the end of the tail) Also, the Dragon can symbolize steadiness and longevity, hence SLT on 1 leg!!!
Ip Mans single dragon practice
As for this picture of Ip Man, notice his single leg stance. Look at the alignment of the upper thighs to the calf, as if the lower leg is simply hanging from the knee. Then, if you look closer at the foot itself, I call this Poon Long Gerk (enclosed Dragon foot)
This posture is very very famous in Canton Opera, and fundamental to all legwork training. And to share a little idea with you all, I have used such positioning on the Wooden Man to ‘leap’ up onto the arms then head of the wooden body where I settle into a single leg stance to practise SLT!!! :eek:
Not recommended for everybody, but something that you would experience if you learnt any Lion Dancing or Mui Faa pole stepping combinations. Both of which I was exposed to a little during my time learning Wing Chun at Jun Mo.
An example…
Here is a way to train Snake & Crane ideas within your interaction (Chisau) training…
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1097503&postcount=15
Enjoy!
Does WC have animal sets?
Not unless they were added later, like in the Vietnam Branch of WC.
Does it have “attitudes” and tools based on the animals? Sure.
Crane Wing Arm, Eagle Wing Arm, Dragon Claw. Snake Intent, Crane Intent.
What does that really amount to? Not a whole heck of a lot outside of the Siu Lam signature.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097421]
As for this picture of Ip Man, notice his single leg stance. Look at the alignment of the upper thighs to the calf, as if the lower leg is simply hanging from the knee. Then, if you look closer at the foot itself, I call this Poon Long Gerk (enclosed Dragon foot)
This posture is very very famous in Canton Opera, and fundamental to all legwork training. And to share a little idea with you all, I have used such positioning on the Wooden Man to ‘leap’ up onto the arms then head of the wooden body where I settle into a single leg stance to practise SLT!!! :eek:
Not recommended for everybody, but something that you would experience if you learnt any Lion Dancing or Mui Faa pole stepping combinations. Both of which I was exposed to a little during my time learning Wing Chun at Jun Mo. :)[/QUOTE]
That’s not a single leg stance ffs! Is there even such a thing in Ving Tsun??? No!!! Its a kick and that particular picture is of Yip Man posing for a photo NOT practicing!!!
I thought you would know that. ****!! You have proved me wrong again!! Basic stuff that. There are more problems with that photo but I don’t want you to burst my faith in your knowledge!
G
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097645]That’s not a single leg stance ffs! Is there even such a thing in Ving Tsun??? No!!! Its a kick and that particular picture is of Yip Man posing for a photo NOT practicing!!! [/QUOTE]
You do make me laugh sometimes. This picture is from Ip Chuns 116 Wooden Man book. It’s in my 3rd set.
And OFCOURSE ALL of the pictures that Ip Man produced for his students were ‘posed’ for, for accuracy AND with ‘terms’, like in Cantonese, so people wouldn’t forget what he was trying to show.
I guess that you do have a name for this specific posture/technique too? Oh! That’s right, it’s a ‘kick’ :o
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097645]You have proved me wrong again!! Basic stuff that. There are more problems with that photo but I don’t want you to burst my faith in your knowledge!
G[/QUOTE]
G, I don’t think you, of all people, could burst my happy WCK bubble so don’t worry yourself about such things. Y’know I love everything about this forum don’t you? All the diversity and propoganda.
And even the guys that seem so blinkered by one mans ‘way’ have their moments.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097650]
And even the guys that seem so blinkered by one mans ‘way’ have their moments.)[/QUOTE]
Blinkered?? LMAO…That’s like saying that after years of driving around in rubbish cars and you eventually drive a Ferrari you all of a sudden think the Ferrari is the best car in the world. You have been blinded by its brilliance!!! Ha Ha…I’ll stick to my Ferrari mate and you you’re Robin Reliant!! pmsl
G
PS..Please don’t come out with an analogy of car preferences please. Ferrari, Lambo, MaClaren F1…who cares???.. They are better than a 1981 Ford Escort!!!
So you 'presume ’ I am referring to you?? :rolleyes:
Interesting…
Actually, answer me this, do you open your YJKYM by dropping the knee and opening the toes first or the heels first?
I would bet on the toes first, and THAT opening move is named after the Dragon in the family I have learnt from. So, if you’re happy with what you do and are not interested in the language or culture your art originates, I can’t do anything about that. There’s is also nothing wrong in that either. There is space in this World for everyone, if only people can accept differences…
…I’m not trying to smother your happiness mate!!! How is the course of Prozac going?? :D:D:D:D:D