Absurd use of Conservatism vs. Liberalism in some shools

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=Black Jack II;764172]

Wrong again buckey. No public school should have a mandatory, sneak up on you, panel for kids telling them they should take drugs, masturbate and have sex because there going to anyway.

Totally undermines what morals and goals the parent is trying to set.

.[/QUOTE]

u think masturbation is wrong ?
u think kids dont do it ?
i do it
it feels good and doesnt hurt anyone
and everyone else that i know does it as well

not because ppl told them they should

and adolescents will have sex as well i have and loads of ppl i know have safe sex and enjoy our selves

it is ok to have sex and masturbate

drugs are bad so lets teach them about why they are bad instead of letting them experiment by themselves

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[QUOTE=BoulderDawg;763678]We need more liberals in the schools. .[/QUOTE]

…:eek: are you ****tin’ me?

[QUOTE=BoulderDawg;763678] This would have never happened in an enlightened classroom.[/QUOTE]

Ok, stop what you are doing and smash yourself in the face with a brick for writing that.

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[QUOTE=unkokusai;764176]…:eek: are you ****tin’ me?

Ok, stop what you are doing and smash yourself in the face with a brick for writing that.[/QUOTE]

interesting how u didnt say why

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[QUOTE=golden arhat;764177]interesting how u didnt say why[/QUOTE]

Ok, because public schools, by and large, are loaded with liberals (one or two exceptions notwithstanding), and because preaching about “enlightened” classrooms is painfully pretentious. I didn’t even mention how offensively presumptuous it was of him to add the “especially in the south” part, as if an entire region of our country was so backward and uncivilized that it cried out for some pretentious would-be carpet-bagger liberals to tell them how to think. Do schools in the north that impose all manner of ideological indoctrination on the left, regardless of what parents want, mean that the north ‘needs’ southerners to come instruct them in life? There are whack-jobs and extremists on all sides and unfortunately some of them want to force their ideas on the youngest and most impressionable while they are a captive audience, but the post I replied to was pretentious and unreasonable.

There. Happy now?

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[QUOTE=golden arhat;764175]it is ok to have sex and masturbate [/QUOTE]

Its also ok to have self control and to act responsibly. Above all, its the families place to teach the morality of these things to children, not the public schools place to teach them that amorality is the only good.

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[QUOTE=unkokusai;764180]Ok, because public schools, by and large, are loaded with liberals (one or two exceptions notwithstanding), and because preaching about “enlightened” classrooms is painfully pretentious. I didn’t even mention how offensively presumptuous it was of him to add the “especially in the south” part, as if an entire region of our country was so backward and uncivilized that it cried out for some pretentious would-be carpet-bagger liberals to tell them how to think. Do schools in the north that impose all manner of ideological indoctrination on the left, regardless of what parents want, mean that the north ‘needs’ southerners to come instruct them in life? There are whack-jobs and extremists on all sides and unfortunately some of them want to force their ideas on the youngest and most impressionable while they are a captive audience, but the post I replied to was pretentious and unreasonable.

There. Happy now?[/QUOTE]

We should have let the South secede from the union and we all would have been better off. Although we’d probably have a hostile Southern neighbor.

FP

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[QUOTE=Fu-Pow;764183]We should have let the South secede from the union and we all would have been better off. [/QUOTE]

That’s either a poor joke, or just plain dumb.

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We need to concentrate on what is being taught and take the politics (School prayer, bible study, other conservative distractions) out of the classroom.

And leave the liberal Earth first and Heather has Two Mommies who are Daddies? That blade cuts both ways.

My 5-point plan for un****ing the public school system:

Dang Merry, you really must want to **** off the teachers unions. Good plan by the way and I agree with it. Votech was a perfectly acceptable track when I was in high school and some of those guys earned a bigger paycheck than the guys who graduated college. These days they’d think you’re retarded for opting for a trade rather than emptying mom and dad’s nest egg going to school.

69

They need Class rooms? Really? What’s wrong with the ones we have?

Books? I’ve never heard of a school system in the US that did not have books for students.

Pay the teachers more? And that’s going to magically increase their skills.

Whats wrong with the classes we have? They are over crowded! Too many students for a teacher to attend their personal learning needs. You either keep up or get drug behind. More classroom equal less student per sq ft.

They have books, but sometime schools have old crappy books, and they need new good books. The kind that have the correct information and not some wives tale from 10 years ago.

Magically? No, but in time it will draw better educated and more qualified instructors. Also It would bring more teachers into the profession which would help with the student to teacher ratio.

We need to concentrate on what is being taught and take the politics (School prayer, bible study, other conservative distractions) out of the classroom.

Most of that crap never makes it into the school, except a few isolated exceptions. It’s mostly just people whining about the possibilities. :rolleyes:

Things I would spend money on:

Teachers assistants, Let’s get someone in the classroom to help these teachers

That sound like a good idea.

Classes for parents on how you can improve your child’s preformance

Never going to happen, unless voluntary and then the only parents who would show would already be helping their kids.

Oh, and you spelled performance wrong. :stuck_out_tongue:

Beside make a couple of semi valid points, your still a stupid for disagreeing with me! :eek:

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Mao, table for one?

[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;764197] they need new good books. The kind that have the correct information [/QUOTE]

Here come da Chairman!

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[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;764197]

Magically? No, but in time it will draw better educated and more qualified instructors. [/QUOTE]

No evidence of that being the case so far.

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Dang Merry, you really must want to **** off the teachers unions.

Sort of. I’m proposing a trade-off:

You want more money…ok, but your trade is that tenure goes bye-bye. If I’m giving you more money, then I have a right to protect that investment.

Tenure inhibits that.

Make tenure a privelege, not a right, awarded for consistent top performers, and limit it to a certain percentage (like you can only nominate the top .5 of the district teachers for tenure per year etc.) if you’re going to use it at all.

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Its also ok to have self control and to act responsibly. Above all, its the families place to teach the morality of these things to children, not the public schools place to teach them that amorality is the only good.

Reply]
Agreed, then the schools should STOP trying to teach thier versiosn of morality, and instead teach Math, Language and Sciences etc…

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Yes, but this is a two-edged sword. We must teach them a set of morals, so they don’t go about using their Math, Language, and Science irresponsibly. Maybe you guys don’t know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do. I live in a more visceral and rough part of the world than you do. I’ve seen it time and time again.

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Maybe you guys don’t know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do.

Reply]
My Daughter is in Trigg now..trust me I see the lethal potential of that stuff!

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[QUOTE=Merryprankster;764203]You want more money…ok, but your trade is that tenure goes bye-bye. If I’m giving you more money, then I have a right to protect that investment.[/QUOTE]

Just like working anywhere else. Protecting every worker from being fired is where I think many unions have gone wrong.

I will say that so far I’ve been impressed by the teachers that my boys have had, they really are busting their humps trying to educate their students. Many have gone above and beyond what they had to do to help my kids learn, and for that I’m grateful. What burns me is that these people have to pay for class room supplies out of their own pockets. That’s unacceptable to me, so my wife and I donate cash to the classroom with a match from my wifes company so they aren’t burdened with an additional expense.

Agreed, then the schools should STOP trying to teach thier versiosn of morality,

But teachers should be teaching and reinforcing civil behavior in their class rooms. There is no excuse for a child to misbehave and not suffer consequences. What I’ve noticed is that the better teachers know how to give appropriate consequences in a timely fashion, the weaker teachers depend on sending the kid to the principle. One of the best things I ever heard was from my youngest who said his teacher was strict but fair. That speaks volumes about that teacher, and he’s had more like that each school year.

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But teachers should be teaching and reinforcing civil behavior in their class rooms. There is no excuse for a child to misbehave and not suffer consequences. What I’ve noticed is that the better teachers know how to give appropriate consequences in a timely fashion, the weaker teachers depend on sending the kid to the principle. One of the best things I ever heard was from my youngest who said his teacher was strict but fair. That speaks volumes about that teacher, and he’s had more like that each school year.

This sounds great, but have you ever encountered a parent who blames the teacher for the child’s failure in grades and behavior? It makes teaching the cause and effect relationship for their behavior really freakin hard. You also need a principal who will back you up when things get hairy (ie, a screaming, bat**** looney, parent calls the school asking why the teacher hates her precious little douchebag offspring).

Oh, and GOD FORBID that there is a race issue involved.

One of my friends was threatened with a lawsuit there…

Of course, that all went away when the picture of his black father-in-law, mexican mother-in-law, mixed-race wife and kids showed up, LOL.

Comeuppance is a beautiful thing.

However, one thing I will agree with you on is that some people have a real gift for inspiring respect, and they seem to be able to handle anybody. In the absence of that god given talent, the following rules, which I have gleaned from years of dealing with 18 year olds applies:

  1. The expectations are clear and not subject to varied interpretations.
  2. The consequences are clear, progressive and enforced.
  3. The above are available ahead of time and known by all.
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[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;764237]Maybe you guys don’t know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do.

Reply]
My Daughter is in Trigg now..trust me I see the lethal potential of that stuff![/QUOTE]

Just look what it did to Rwanda.

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[QUOTE=Merryprankster;764240]This sounds great, but have you ever encountered a parent who blames the teacher for the child’s failure in grades and behavior? It makes teaching the cause and effect relationship for their behavior really freakin hard. You also need a principal who will back you up when things get hairy (ie, a screaming, bat**** looney, parent calls the school asking why the teacher hates her precious little douchebag offspring).[/QUOTE]

Cause and effect is important. We teach our boys that their freedom to do certain things is based on how much responsibility they show. If they act irresponsible bye bye being able to see those Friday night high school football games that are such important social events for their friends. Any privilege can be pulled at any time for bad behavior and we’ve exercised that option many times. It seems to work.

We’re very tight with our kids teachers and principle in elementary school, though not so much with #1 son’s middle school teachers. We’ve had several teachers open up how parents blame them for their kids bad behavior and bad grades. One neighbor had her kid moved from one of our favorite teacher’s class because, I kid you not, her daughter wasn’t being loved enough. This was the teacher that my son said was strict but fair.
I know my kids good points and bad points, and at the beginning of each school year we tell the teachers that there is nothing we don’t know about our kids so if they act up to call us at work. So far the results have been excellent with both boys getting good grades and becoming well liked by their teachers. If a kid knows that mom and dad aren’t going to excuse their bad behavior then usually that behavior will change.

[QUOTE=Merryprankster;764240]However, one thing I will agree with you on is that some people have a real gift for inspiring respect, and they seem to be able to handle anybody. In the absence of that god given talent, the following rules, which I have gleaned from years of dealing with 18 year olds applies:

  1. The expectations are clear and not subject to varied interpretations.
  2. The consequences are clear, progressive and enforced.
  3. The above are available ahead of time and known by all.[/QUOTE]

Good list. My youngest is a class clown, he also went through a period of anxiety over getting left back even though he had straight A’s and B’s. Let’s just say because of his anxiety he had more than a few lunches with the principle. When this was going on I found that taking something away from him did little to change his behavior, but making him do something as simple as writing 100X “I will not do X to Y”, worked wonders. His current teacher hands out president cards for inappropriate classroom behavior. A president card is a 9 paragraph biography of one of the US presidents, and the child has to copy it word for word and turn it in the next morning. It takes time, it takes effort to write and it also forces the kid to learn something. I love old school punishments.:cool:

One other thing, I’ve noticed some kids behave better in school than at home. I wonder why?

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[QUOTE=Merryprankster;764240]Oh, and GOD FORBID that there is a race issue involved.

One of my friends was threatened with a lawsuit there…

Of course, that all went away when the picture of his black father-in-law, mexican mother-in-law, mixed-race wife and kids showed up, LOL.[/QUOTE]

That doesn’t mean anything. Some of the most brutal, violent cops that patrol the black community are black themselves. Also look at Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. These people look down on and discriminate upon their own people. Same goes for people who marry different races. It doesn’t mean you can’t discriminate against others.