Guys I appologize
I just cant help myself. Staying on topic but this is such a great ending.
//youtu.be/gBrP0wRp4Bg
Great thoughts guys,
I understand your experience shapes your outlook of bad people being in CMA. Since you don’t want to talk about, I will not press on.
I am very sorry to hear that in your experience you met enough bad people in CMA to justify the idea that teaching immoral or unjust individuals is a commonly accepted thing. Well, I currently live in the birthplace of CMA and every 3 months I travel to meet different masters. I have never heard them support your idea. While we all agree that there are bad people who enter into CMA, just like some bad people enter into being a doctor or pre-school teacher, it is not generally accepted at all here. Again, studying the historical development of wushu and it’s cultural foundations is important. I would have to disagree that these rotten apples represent or are respected in the CMA community. The purpose of kung fu is self mastery and styles have historical connections to taoism or buddhism for a reason. The idea that some bad people don’t know they are bad is true, but a master who represents the face of his style should have a moral compass unless he wants to bring ruin to his lineage and style. Villians can appear in everything, that doesn’t mean it is an acceptable part of the culture. If you think training immoral or evil people to have high level skills is apart of CMA culture or an accepted part of CMA as a whole, then you don’t really understand the meaning of kung fu or wushu and I suggest you travel more and get to know it deeper. We always stop those who are into dark things from getting certain knowledge for reason…
I don’t think Yip Man was a gang member who bullied and beat up people. Based on his interviews, he wasn’t a hooligan who had triad connections. Young guys rough each other up a bit. Youth are often misguided. It is up teachers to teach and guide them toward a better path. He became a very great individual and skilfull master. His master was a great person who guided him well. Again, CMA does not have an open door policy to teach selfish and immoral people high level skills just for money. Character always plays an important role in CMA development. Hence the phrase, " wood without knots become pillars that are placed at the forefront of the temple, wood with a few knots are placed in the back but still hold up the temple, wood with many knots becomes firewood."
About racism. Yes, it existed in many places around the world. But, Chinese philosophy such as taoism or buddhism do not allow or accept racism ideaologically. At the core of these philosophies were the ideas of longevity by stripping away self-centered existence. These core concepts became the root of CMA. Racism has never been a root of CMA. Do you have any collective evidence to support CMA being a racist culture? Kung Fu masters have always been selective with high level science. Many didn’t even teach those with even the same skin color. High level knowledge isn’t meant for everyone. There is a respectful process of passing down knowledge. When I open my school, I will give respect to the values my teacher taught me and share those principles with my students. I will give respect to him and the many people who sacrificed for our system. This is our lineage. Carrying on the system will require a difficult process of finding someone with great character to carry on our tradition in a moral way. If not, we are ruined. The i ching is ancient text that expresses these values and how to avoid calamity. This is the CMA way. Opening a school behind my masters back, slapping my name on it, collecting students to grow MY fame and not preserving lineage/values is a huge sign of disrespect in Chinese culture. When others come to call me out, simply saying they are racists who won’t let me teach is rediculous. That’s what Bruce Lee did with his “Bruce Lee Wing Chun School” and then some…
If I did the same, I would have a lot of unpleasant encounters. His insults, brash behavior and gangster mind didn’t help.
Also, with the bad historical relationships with some westerners nations and asia, of course people became a bit weary of teaching certain knowledge widely. A small example is the opium war… Western imperialism was a flourishing business. That doesn’t mean CMA is racist or founded with racist ideas. It also doesn’t mean the east was not without it’s problems.
Bruce Lee was a problematic and impulsive person. He brought a lot of problems on himself with the way he behaved. Even his development of Jeet Kune Do was a selfish business decision. After “getting winded” with WJM, he had to show others he was the best. Instead of him realizing that it was him not just WC that made him a fail, he quit and made a new methodology called JKD in order to maintain the illusion of still having superior way. Conceptually, since JKD has no way as way… it becomes vague and thus hard to argue against. But the ideaology of adaptation in his book are mainly unfleshed out CMA scientific concepts. The ideas of becoming one with one’s opponent and not relying on a constricting combative way existed long before JKD. At it’s highest level, Xing Yi Liu He for example, expresses becoming one with one’s opponent and utilizing great internal force to do great damage. Never contrict one’s methodology. Many CMA arts express much deeper aspects. I am not disrespecting any JKD guys reading this, but it’s important to understand that he didn’t create all this knowledge.
Keep in mind, he wasn’t a philosophy or physiology major as he claimed. He was a drama major. That does say a lot, when placed in the context of the way he carried himself.
In terms of usefulessness, one cannot discard things simply because they don’t understand them. Only when you learn something in it’s scientific depth and entirety can you make selective/adaptive choices. Sciences must be understood before they can be expanded or adapted. Since he never really completed any kung fu system or stayed in it very long, it’s quite hard to vouch for his decisions. A good example is music. Learning to play an instrument and studying music theory methodically takes lots of time and dedication. One could skip over all of that because they don’t think it’s useful and use computer software/autotune to design it all. It’s faster, but it leaves much to be desired, lacks depth in skill and reduces real control over one’s expression.
As to why Bruce Lee isn’t liked by everyone… I think he is idolized by many. However, I don’t believe in liking someone just because he/she gained financial succes or look the same as me. I think the big issue is seperating the man from star. He was not a very decent individual. If someone can achieve the American dream through decent character and hardwork, they are my idol. They don’t have to be rich or famous… black or white… There are many asians who gained their success in America through hardwork, without being egotistical gangsters. They opened doors for their community and are still opening doors today. Bruce became so over-hyped to the point where he represented a cause that out grew reality and even himself. He was a great actor.
Although he may have been in a gang and I can’t recall if so he was 13-18. Likely most of the fights were the roof top matches all those kids watched or participated in because of my school is better than your school that kids love so much. Not that us adults it seems worldwide do not advocate this regardless or local it seem. Heck my home town school has a football team. So does most everyone in the US, Your kids on the team. You don’t tell him to go be nice out there on the field Timmy. Say you are sorry for knocking into that opponent. No, more along the line you guys better crush those p—ssies. They suck. You are way better. So, they learn it from us. As we did. Just go hang out at any football game and watch the irate irrational parents that can be there. So, I am really unsure how that made him a gangster ? Where they running numbers at St. Francis Xavier’s College ? In involved in extortion ? Was he and his crew pimps ? Muscle for whatever ? Or just doing what all the other kids were doing around those blocks ? Was it traditional ?
You mention him being in the Triads. You mean as a teenager ? Or when he went back ? Or just had connection because it is widely believed and maybe proven now that they were deeply involved in the film industry in China. Is that the connection ? So, of course there is a great chance he encountered them and maybe often. Did they put a bounty on his head ? Ive read that too. Is there actual proof ? I don’t think anyone could have projected his massive rise to fame at the time but he was a earner so regardless the disrespect. They would be killing their cash cow. Yes, he was going to migrate back was the word on the street or whatever. Would none of them think well he still may come back and do movies here. Its just seems really bad business to kill the thing one is making loads of cash on. I could be wrong but were not his low budget films making amounts never seen previously ? No one expected Kung Fu films to gain that much momentum .
Think of it. One man rolls into town with his bare feet and fists. With only 5 years half assed WC training he beats an entire village all at once and shuts done the local ice factory. There will be no more ice until we are paid decent wages ! Heck they all rushed him and they stood not a single chance in hell. You would think every American or elsewhere would have scratched their heads and said. What is this sh–it ? Doesn’t anyone one have a freaking firearm to take this aberration
out ? He is possessed and now no one can get a cold drink anywhere for weeks until parts come in. It was at ebst a niche idea likely everywhere but China.
Yet it exploded. Fantasy sells !
As to the Taoist or Buddhist philosophies and faith. Gene has a entire thread pages deep of badboy Buddhists. Claiming some sort of religious superiorty because our says we cant do this and expecting me or anyone not in it to believe it when our own says lots of the same ideas and yet we constantly break the 10 co0mmandments or whatever your major rulings are is a joke ! For every single faith. The book is great. The people SUCK!
There are lots here with the insults, brash behavior and gangster mind attitude. I myself am guilty. But for most and generally accurate. It is in jest aside from a squabble here and there. No big deal. But if we base Genes forum on the character of its posters. CMA are loaded with undesirables for any place. We be twisted and demented. Blame Chinas booming film industry . Poor Hollywood cant even fix sign half the time. And we turn out loads of pure garbage that most miss.
Well he did study philosophy but yes his major was different. Id ask Linda or his daughter if you really wanted more accurate information but they likely don’t bother with that because people would not leave them alone but maybe today not as many people call ? I don’t know.
I agree there is likely usefulness to things he discarded. But some things may have simply been poor fit to him personally. Also his book was not a book. It was a collection of notes he made along the way. He announced he was going to write the book. But never did so. It was compiled after he was dead. We don’t know what his book would have consisted of. He wrote 2 book that I know of. That really bad first book and a second book on Wing Chun that he gave to J. Yimm Lee
and took credit as technical editor or something. J. Yimm Lee needed money. Hows that for character ? He did stuff like that for many people who entered into his life. Often while he himself was broke. Of course they also had a very close friendship and Bruce and Linda lived at J. Lee home. Upper apartment and taught out of the garage together.
Idolized is a good word and likely does apply heavily but the guy was LOVED worldwide. He still is. He crossed boarders and religions and made connection that few people ever attain. Pretty good for a guy not peddling religion. Just a lowly actor ? Much more really. One could say he was also an actor. Now as to acting ability. I personally rank him pretty low from the body of work he left behind. But he likely would have improved as he had his direction set on films outside of martial arts. Likely would not be accepted and would have to go back to kung fu film. But who knows ? He achieved impossible more than once.
Anyway. He was Bruce Lee. He looks like he made friends and enemies along the way.
Oh, WJM. Was he teaching anyone yet before the fight ? Any non Asians before the fight ? Just asking because that could have been the belief and reason for it.
Bruce made an open challenge to anyone. WJM accepted. If we go buy the it took 25 minutes than both fighters sucked and neither wanted to hurt the other.
But the body of work they left behind proves otherwise. WJM himself essentially said he was guilty of arrogance. They were both early 20’s. I did not grow up until 67 and Im only late 40’s still. Just saying.
We are all silly *******s. Some less so than others.
Also thanks for the great thread. Some nice participation in it.
Well, I’ve only been in MA for 40+ years now, and have only trained on both sides of the Pacific Ocean, with 32 of those years total in CMA. Having trained intensively as well as traveled in that time. So maybe I don’t really understand kung fu or wushu in your view. Doesn’t matter to me, because it’s worked for me. If it hadn’t, I would not have stuck with it. What I do know very well is that underestimating someone because of their background, because of their personality, formal education (or lack of), or appearance is a big no-no. Did you know that even though many masters came from wealthy families, many who didn’t were illiterate? This is a fact. That doesn’t equate to lack of intelligence.
I have no regrets for my experiences in CMA, and I didn’t say it was all negative. I AM saying there are CMA schools in existence that have criminal connections. I was not a member of any, but in Taiwan I’ve seen as well as interacted with people who were. They didn’t necessarily behave like evil people. Many of them were quite cordial. But you knew what their connections were. I’ll leave it at that.
I agree that BL’s version of the WJM fight was most likely heavily skewed to make him look better than he actually did in that fight. Otherwise, with his ego, I doubt he would have completely overhauled his training and views on MA for the rest of his life. However, it is funny how, after all these years, so many people are still butthurt over the words of a man who was still essentially a kid when he said them. I’m betting if we’re completely honest with ourselves, we all said some arrogant and stupid things in our youth. I know I did. Occasionally I still do. Come on, everyone. He was a kid when he said those things, and he died young 44 years ago.
I hope you don’t mind me expressing that I would prefer not to talk about the Triads. I don’t really want to reveal or talk about anything that would get me into trouble. I prefer to live a simple life. Even mentioning their dealings on the board is something I feel is not productive toward anything healthy… About his family wealth and power ties, I mention something interesting about his grandpa in previous posts. That’s about as far as I can go without getting into any trouble… Sorry… Let’s stay off Triad topics please. What happened to him or his son, or his family power and connections are things that I would prefer to leave alone.
About teenagers in gangs. I lived in a violent area in the past. Teens get into gangs all the time and still do today. It’s nothing like the humorous football example you described. In HK in the 1930s - 1950s, it was not the beautiful, peaceful picture people paint. It was a violent and corrupt area. The triad influence and power was immense. Power shifts meant a lot bloodshed and absolutely, teenagers were involved. Teenagers were recruited back then and they are now. If you can draw some conclusions from what I mentioned before, you can see why Bruce was involved in gangs and not having fun with kids. I wrote enough for you to logically put some pieces together. If you don’t, ah well… There are plenty of interviews and information you can research for yourself.
The triads still recruit teenagers today and things still get pretty violent. Here is a modern real account:
My involvement began in high school. There was nothing dramatic about it, I just became friends with a bunch of people I thought were cool and one thing led to another.
High school gangs are like triad training schools. They are not part of the triads per se, they’re more of a triad Mickey Mouse fan club where a group of young wannabes strut around pretending to be something they’re not. You’d be surprised at just how many of these there are.
The leaders of these high school gangs are usually affiliated with a low ranking triad member, called a 49 in triad lexicon. These are the foot soldiers. The 49 functions as big brother whose help the boys would call on in case of trouble, but big brother is also a scout who kept an eye out for promising young talent.
I must’ve seemed like one, because I was soon introduced to the 49er’s tailou (big brother), who was also a 49er. We met a few times at a local disco, snorted cocaine, gargled ketamine, popped ecstasy, and soon he trusted me enough to put me in charge of a few high-school gangs.
The triads are structured like a MLM scheme. At the lower levels, the more followers you recruit, the more powerful you become, the higher up you climb. The people above your rank are referred to as tailou or ____ ko which means elder brother, and your followers are referred to as DauGei, or children.
It’s all about the organization. So we organized.
We recruited the same way ISIS and Al Qaeda does: by giving disaffected and disenfranchised young men a sense of belonging. We start off by convincing the kids that we were cool by bringing them alcohol, drugs and other illicit goods. Then when they have issues they’d come to us for help and we’d help them. Many of the kids I recruited were bullied in school and looking for some revenge, and we’d give the kid’s bully a thorough trashing.
Some of the kids would naively come to see us as these cool guys who were looking out for them, and they’d seek to be a part of our circle. Once we got the kids on hooked on the illusion of brotherhood and coolness, they’re ours to keep. And they’ll bring their friends as well.
We went around the schools settling petty disputes such as who stole whose girlfriend - at the high school level, everything is petty- , and we enforced pax triadica with our fists. We demanded discipline from our members, and if one of our own went out of line we’d beat him up ourselves. We were a group of young bullies with our own set of rules and standards of behaviour. My recruits unwittingly traded one bully in school, for circle of friends who bullied one another.
From petty disputes we graduated on to settling disputes between local businesses. Unlicensed bars, moneylenders and illegal gambling dens would pay us a set fee, and in return we’d step in if they have problems. The money was terrible, but for a young kid, having adults and business owners turn to you for help is a huge ego trip.
I was able to grow the organization effectively because I understood the principles of peer pressure and group think. So if you’re a parent, I would advise you to obsess over who your teenager is hanging out with; there are many manipulators like me out there.
I must’ve been a pretty good recruiter, because the boss took me under his wing and introduced me to his boss, Suen Ko. Suen Ko was a hung kwan, or a mid-level lieutenant in the triad hierarchy. This is where I started to get involved with the actual organization. We had a short initiation ceremony in a karaoke room, and I became a 49 under Suen Ko.
Suen Ko owned a few nightclubs and bars, and virtually every night we’d be in one of his fine establishments drinking, partying, and partaking in every drug we could get our hands on. Our sort attracted a certain sort of girl, and there were girls aplenty. The bars were a money maker, but Suen Ko’s real money came from selling bootleg CDs.
At the time, bootleg CDs and eventually DVDs were an organized crime gold rush. This was before napster and way before bittorrent, and demand was so high that we filled up entire shopping malls with outlets selling pirated movies, music and software. A common joke was that if Bill Gates ever visited our malls, he’d have a heart attack on the spot.
For about 5 cents in costs for a blank CD, we sold the end product to the consumer for 15 local bucks a pop. Not even cocaine had that kind of margin. We were selling the bootlegs as fast as we could print them, and best of all piracy was perceived by the local cops as a low-impact crime and as such wasn’t rigorously enforced. Heck, many of our regular customers were cops. At the time, you could drive up to a police checkpoint with a stash of bootleg CDs on the backseat, give a cheeky grin and a thumbs up, and the cops would just wave you through.
Suen Ko made millions within his first year.
I was good with computers, and I became his IT department. I helped him organize his production, and in return he gave me a handsome cut. I made quite a bit of money in my teens, but I quickly blew it all on drugs and girls.
The biggest eye opener was during the annual company dinner. They had to construct a tent hall on an empty field to fit all 5,000 of us in, and there were local politicians and community leaders on the front row tables. That drove in the impression of just how big the tree was, and how deep the roots went.
If I made the triads sound like corporations, that’s because that’s what they are. We were even registered with the Registrar of Companies as a multimedia company and we paid our taxes. The big bosses looked just like any other middle aged Chinese uncle you’d meet at the local supermarket. The best way to avoid detection is to be in plain sight and blend into the background. The so-called gangsters you see on the street strutting their stuff are amateurs; many of them are just aping what they see in the movies. The pros keep a low profile and get on with making money.
Once you go far enough up the hierarchy, violence is actually pretty rare. For the most part, being a triad is just like working in any other corporate job.
But when violence does occur at that level, it’s freaking terrifying.
Roundabout the end of my first year, there was a war. The politician who Suen Ko worked for was at odds with another politician from the same organization. There were a few shootings, grenade attacks, and choppings, but it didn’t affect me directly at first so I didn’t give much thought to it. Then a call came one night. All hands on deck. We dropped everything and converged on the HQ.
Pardon the expletive, but it was scary as ****. There were a hundred or so of us milling about an office block, and someone started handing out machetes and sashimi knives. Suen Ko took me up to the office, and there were hard looking ****ers at every corner. The air was so full of cigarette smoke I could barely breathe. Everyone looked grim. Apparently we were expecting an attack.
I was a skinny teenager, and I was out of my depth. Till that point, I’d been involved on the white collar side of things. The guys I saw that night had the word hard etched on their faces. I’ve never felt more scared than I did that night.
We stayed there overnight, but no attack came so we went back to our branch office. They attacked us there. A dozen or so guys rushed in and we fought back with chairs, clubs, machetes, boxes of A4 paper, everything we could get our hands on. It was a hazy frantic panicky desperate fight for survival. We were cornered and if we lost it would’ve been game over. One of theirs died in the melee.
The police arrived fairly quickly and I went to jail for a bit. It was in a cell that I resolved that this life wasn’t for me. For some miraculous reason, I got off scot-free. I went home, packed my things, and left everything behind to start a new life.
So how did it feel like? Terrible.
It’s not a healthy way to live one’s life. It got to the point where I was so paranoid that whenever I went to a restaurant I’d sit facing the entrance so I’d know who was coming in. I saw potential threats everywhere, and I carried symptoms of PTSD for a long time afterwards.
It took me a very long time to put my past behind and to learn to live again without fear like a normal human being. I had cut off all ties with everyone I knew, and have difficulty trusting people. Till today I know many, but am close with very few.
If there’s any teenager reading this who is in a similar situation as I was, know that the world is vast and there are opportunities everywhere. The cool kids you see in school are anything but.
Don’t make the same mistakes I did.
That was a true account from someone who was recruited by the Triads. Not very fun rough housing.
Doesn’t sound like football on a field rough housing right? The Chinese gangs do not mess around and Bruce Lee was involved with triads and his family power… Well… Anyway…
Here is something interesting:
"Detective Inspector Andrew Rennison, head of the Chinese intelligence unit within the Metropolitan Police, described four Triad societies which operate throughout the country, with strongholds in London, Southampton, Manchester, Northampton and Glasgow. He estimated that there were up to 200 core Triads, and predicted that the number of gang members would quickly rise if there is a large influx of people from Hong Kong when China takes over the colony in 1997.
However, a recent trend noted by his team was the recruitment of non- Chinese teenagers into the Triad movement. In a recent case, 20 members of a gang in Croydon, south London, aged from 13 to 15, were recruited by Triads through Chinese youngsters.
The teenagers, both black and white, had been used by the Triad in crimes, mainly centred in London’s Chinatown."
-JASON BENNETTO Crime Correspondent
Bruce Lee’s father was a famous actor. I already discussed his mom and grandfather…
Mobsters have traditionally had strong ties with the Hong Kong film industry. Local gangs and triads often demand protection money from film crews to shoot on Hong Kong’s streets. Actors who turn down film offers from the triads and directors that have refused to cast triad-supported actors have received death threats and visits from armed gangsters. There have also been reports of harassment and extortion and even rapes and kidnaps. In 1992, two prominent producers were murdered.
One Hong Kong detective told the Los Angeles Times that most gangsters got into the film industry to make a quick buck but some took the film industry seriously. Charles Heung, a former actor and son on the leader of the powerful Sun Yee On triad, became president of one of Hong Kong’s largest entertainment companies. Heung has been praised in the filmmaking industry as being “one of the good gangsters.” The Director Wong Kar-wai even went as far as saying, “It’s better to deal with a godfather than an accountant.”
This is pretty much all I want to say about Bruce and Triads. His family had power and he was cocky jerk. You do understand that he fled HK because of his triad dealings. If it was just a simple a fight with some kids or he was rough housing so much, I don’t believe he would be sent away so urgently. He pulled a knife one of his classmates when he was a kid. It tells you something. Apparently, he ****ed off the son of a head of a powerful triad member around 18. There is plenty of stuff out there to research, if you want.
Why would a gang rub off someone? This is territory I cannot get into for many reasons, including my own safety. I don’t want to think about or speak about the triads. Not my business. I keep to myself. But, logic and a little digging will help you answer this question. The triads are a business, stars can be created anytime. Territory is important and that’s about all I can ever say… Sorry.
It’s true that there are bad apples out there in CMA. That is not my concern. The main thing is to understand that CMA at it’s core has principles/philosophies that are benevolent, such as taoism and buddhism. If people don’t want to follow that path, that’s a fate they have chosen and life will deal with them naturally. We get what we choose to be. However, for most high level masters who truly understand the core ideology of CMA, finding an evil and rotten soul to give deep skills to is not ideal. I don’t know why it is strange to suggest that CMA has ethical ties and most high level people would not like to give skills to potential criminals. I would be very weary of someone who claims to have deep science in CMA and lives a selfish and evil lifestyle. As for the people on this board, I don’t really know people on here. I hope they are pursuing an ethical existence, so they use their skills for the right purposes and are not just trying to be badass. I didn’t know that lots of people on this forum have a gangster mind attitude, as you said. I am just looking a place to discuss some stuff for discussion.
I do appreciate your involvement and humor. Interesting opinions.
About Bruce’s book with James Yimm Lee. I believe the first book was called: Chinese Gung Fu: The Philosophical Art of Self-Defense in 1963. It’s a collection of loosely tied photos with no depth. He also published documents that slighted other Kung Fu styles he deemed as not useful at the same time in magazines. I think James Yimm Lee’s Wing Chun book came a bit later. James Yimm Lee had a well known Iron fist, but never mastered wing chun in any form, shape or way. He was also a 3rd rank instructor and CO-FOUNDER of the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute in Oakland. Of course, Bruce would take care of those who would add credibility to his “Jun Fan Gung Fu style.” Who gave Bruce Lee permission to certify other masters under his “Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jun Fan Wing Chun” (Bruce Lee Gung Fu?Wing Chun) school? No one. He certified himself as a master after obtaining 5 years of Wing Chun, under Yip Man and decided… I have my own Gung Fu now. Why? Because, he felt like it and as a drama major… he realized Kung Fu was a major cash opportunity. Did any of those books give respect to the great leaders and lineage of Wing Chun history or even thanks to those who came before? Not really…
When I analyze the way you speak of Bruce, I can tell you are a huge fan of his. He was a film star and well recognized. That doesn’t make him a decent person.
In Reply to Jimbo:
I am not under-estimating your combative skill. However, if you read my original message, it’s clear: “If you think training immoral or evil people to have high level skills is apart of CMA culture or an accepted part of CMA as a whole, then you don’t really understand the meaning of kung fu or wushu and I suggest you travel more and get to know it deeper.”
This doesn’t imply you can’t fight or that you have low skills. I do respect your diligence and hard work for the past 30 years. I am making a true statement. Clearly, you don’t think training immoral or evil people to have high level skills is apart of CMA CULTURE or an accepted part of CMA AS A WHOLE, right? So, then my point is clear. Unless, you actually do think so. Then, I politely disagree and I wish you the best in your CMA career.
The CMA schools that have criminal connections are no different than charities with money laundering criminal ties. They don’t represent their intended purpose or even culture. I repeat: Just because some people use CMA for bad purposes doesn’t mean it was created for such purposes or has such evil as it’s core philosophy.
Wealth doesn’t measure intelligence. Studiousness does and science IS IMPORTANT. There are many different types of sciences. Someone can be adept in one and not skilled in another. Poor individuals can be quite smart in many ways. I don’t understand why this was brought up? I also think that morality is also a form of knowledge and giving science to people who lack it, means it will be used for bad purpose. Evil is often self destructive. Why would a culture be created to destroy itself?
About Bruce’s words, I do agree with you. Hence, why I wrote my original post. MMA claims that Bruce’s words as an undeveloped youth is the foundation for saying that it has developed the ultimate combatants. This has led people (especially a lot of MMA fanatics) to dismiss TMA. You can see some of the attacks on Kung Fu from the MMA community right on this very forum. So, your words is exactly why I wrote what I wrote.
I meant no disrespect.
Alright gentleman, I will leave this discussion to others who want to speak their mind. It has been great talking, but I feel there is not really much more for me to say.
I understand children can be soldiers. It is worldwide history. So to nit understand gangs do the same would escape me as to others reasoning skills. But just because a young Lee was surrounded by a corrupt city and who’s father may have family history and connection and whom Lee may have also know at that young age does not mean he was triad. You are convicting him guilty by association when he may in fact have had no choice in the matter. Likely most of HK business was infiltrated at some level by criminal elements. Does that make the little old lady that buys bread at the corner shop who has an owner that pays a local collections officer who pays the local whoever the monies ? Snowden informed us all that 6 hops out we are all connected. But it is really 6 degree of Kevin Bacon stuff. Already understood. Math science I guess.
What I am asking is where is the actual proof he was a gangster ? Were is the witness. Has he been investigated for accuracy ? Our his statements verifiable ?
Heck, I went to school with local mob guys children. Cant touch those kids period. But did that make them mafia or me mafia ? If I borrowed money from Vinny for lunch Id better have 4 times as much to repay him by 7th period or I was getting my legs broke. No.
I often here my grandfathers warning to not learn any of this stuff. To not fight. I often think he was right.
Again with religious philosophies. Those are the ideals but few live up to them regardless the faith. No, we find a passage or 2 and decide it means it is sometimes okay do break this rule or that rule. But I am more of a realist. I understand people can be good and bad. One guy may be loved and respected for all the good he does. So much so. other over look he is a stone cold killer. Or a thief. Or whatever. Because everything else he does is pious. Heck, he may even preach that stuff.
Anyone with half functioning could figure out Bruce Lee invented nothing. He studied like a mad man and applied different aspects of what he learned to create for himself. People wanted to learn from him so he taught them what he believed in at that time. It changed as he grew older and his understanding grew.
This quote you believe his the basis of his system which he essentially scrapped and ordered Dan Inosanto to close the schools ( quality control may have also been a factor. Lots of thought s I am sure ) because he was done teaching. He told Dan to just teach the few. I believe that is correct. If so, he is following in his kung fu pasts footsteps as far rule is concerned. The why may be different.
The quote was-Using no way as a way, having no limitation as limitation. . That could just be another way to say My way is not your way. Don’t get hung up on everything I do. You cant do what I can do. I cant do what you can do. It may be similar but never the same. Bruce never did grappling as many assert. I believe he did by the way but not his prime focus for himself. Yet he tasked Hartsell with following that path. It better suits you. He may have also suggested these things I taught you could work to get you into your way so in fact this is also your way but these other things will limit your ability to do so. Scrap them. Another way to look at it was focus on your strengths. Don’t ignore or undertrain your weakness but most of the time focus on your strength. But that’s my take away it may not be yours.
Anyway, yes. A fan. But more than that. I recognize his genius. As you say just because one master one form of science does not mean he has mastered all of the. So what was Bruce Lee a master of ? Was his mastery extended into other fields of science ? Was he often given to much credit for skill . I pointed out I put him on the low end of acting. Some may consider that field a science as well. With established and varied ways to achieve the same result. Certain aspects remain constant. Those constants may be the real science. Every thing is just catalyst to end result. Might be more than one catalyst to achieve the same or similar result. GOAL. What are you trying to achieve. It will vary from one to the other. Yet they may all use a similar vehicle to arrive to their goal but their map is different.
Had he lived longer we would see yet further results of his life. He had many varied interests and he it appears combined them all to make himself and the world was in awe. And we wanted to use him as imitation and that is limitation. He advised against it.
He was also very studious as pictures of his library have proven. He read them all. Some likely 1000 times.
Jeet Kune Do. I recall reading a time all his students where saying this is JKD that is JKD and Bruce went along with it and in fact likely enjoyed it at first but then he said something along the line of " don’t get hung up on the name. its just a name " .
Thanks for your descriptive of your involvement and understanding of the system and policy of what you found yourself in. In post 16. I had not seen this one as I was writing my last post or 2 above.
Glad you are safe and hopefully on a better path for you.
Sorry. It was your 16th post in this forum. It was 40 something.
So many people discuss all the major influences BL had on the world, and so many others want to tear him down.
One thing I remember about him was told by Taky Kimura. He was much older than BL, and met him at a time in his life where his self-esteem was at an all-time low. Then BL told him, essentially, “You are as good as anybody else; no better and no worse.” That had a great and lifelong impact on Taky’s life. It may seem like a small thing, and BL himself might have forgotten all about it, but for Taky it was life-changing, because BL was the right person to tell him that at the right time.
Sometimes it’s the supposedly ‘little’ things one does for others that have such a positive impact for someone. The person who does it may never even realize it. And sometimes it’s little things like these that show another side of BL’s character.
I forgot about that Jimbo.
Hakaider - I still have serious reservations about believing Traid killed him. He was worth more alive than dead and he had not even become mega famous yet.
As you said they are Corporate now. Ill take your word for that. It makes sense for survival. And creates ability to launder money. But that is the name of their game. Money. There was zero profit in killing him. But then again, a market for his name/face merchandise sprang up after death but again, I don’t think nay one projected this. I believe he died from cerebral edema as autopsy suggests. I have read things no. Look at his face. This or that poison does this. But just because it dose does not mean the person deducing it is correct. It seems logical. It can be proven this poison does that. But it can not be proven that poison was found in his body. And we can bring it back around to Triad cover up. Its an endless circle.
Im a huge JFK buff. I believe Oswald died and active Marine working for Dept. of Naval Intelligence. His life was just surrounded by to many people he had no reason being around. Friendly interactions and such. It was once believed no one could pull off that ****s he did with a Mannlicher Carcano. Until someone did replicate it. But does that mean he did it ? He was never tried. A questionable Warren Commission. Etc. Just one odd event after another with that lad. And even though I believe he was what I suggest.
Sometimes the simplest answer is in fact the answer. People , especially inside of the MA community not that others escape it. But we have a big tendency to look for secrets and not believe . We are ripe for conspiracy theories. And some people do massive research on stuff and put out an amazing theory that anyone who reads it can be sold first shot. And few return to thought. They accept it as the new belief. It really seems that easy with certain people.
Im not a follower of Joe Rogan myself but ive seen a clip or 2 and he talks about off the wall stuff. Now even this forum is loaded with alternative theories on everything and what is not here will one day present I am sure. It is fun. Now not many participate but I bet lots read it because it is also interesting.
But like any good theory. Mostly unprovable.
That’s why I suggested we keep it to the facts as closely as possible. He and his death can spin some serious off the wall ideas. Yours is a good one actually. Lots of circumstantial evidence. Connecting this to that. Etc. It is impressive. I enjoy it.
Thanks again. Hope you make other as interesting threads.
Hakaider,
This topic is more like an unspoken true. I have read MMA instructor wrote that the sport is very difficult to expert in because it has a wide range of techniques. The sport is characterized by its inclusion of ground techniques. But quite often a tournament will start and end with strikes only. That is the point.
I agree with your main point that MMA is not martial art. But as a TMA student like me, taking down the opponent using a typical MMA move would be unwise. It is sort of giving our neck for the opponent to break. However, because it is a sport, and it has rules to forbid the use of such neck breaking move. Therefore I would not use some MMA fight methods and techniques in real fight.
P.S. I appreciate your posts much especially the first one of this discussion. Your are both a scholar and a warrior.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong