did u just step out of a time machine lol
my wing chun sense also tingling
No time machines here.
I don’t study wing chun, but I do think some aspects of it are useful.
Nice spiderman joke though…
As MMA grows in popularity there will be more analysis of it as a sport, culture and MA. Some people don’t care, some people do.
After my experience with it, a lot of things were put into perspective.
But, I think Socal can provide you with answers you may find more favorable in terms of MMA opinions.
kung fu side effects are way worse than mma side effects.
wat is ur kung fu background?
Firstly, limiting rules doesn’t mean you will be amazing with no rules. They are different sciences and focuses. If I say to you, our rules are limited to having a pillow fight. Just because you are the pillow fighting champion doesn’t mean you can suddenly destroy people in a real fight. How you train is how you fight and what is possible involves a lot of study. Being good at limited rules doesn’t mean you can suddenly beat others with expanded rules. It just means you are good at fighting a certain method. Science and knowledge with experience dictates everything. Your example is like me playing street fighter 3 third strike. I say to my friend, we can only shoot fireballs. He can beat me everytime. That’s different from having a full on match in the game. If am used to using a wider range skillset and he has these fire ball matches, he will lose.
So much incorrect here..
lets see:
Firstly, limiting rules doesn’t mean you will be amazing with no rules
.
Just as training without any real contact because it is too dangerous doesn’t mean you will be able to fight with real contact.
The least amount of rules, the close to real fighting and MMA is as loce ot real fighting as we cna get without someone trying to kill us ( real fighting)
They are different sciences and focuses. If I say to you, our rules are limited to having a pillow fight. Just because you are the pillow fighting champion doesn’t mean you can suddenly destroy people in a real fight.
No, but actually fighting, hitting and getting hit is far closer to anything we have.
How you train is how you fight and what is possible involves a lot of study. Being good at limited rules doesn’t mean you can suddenly beat others with expanded rules. It just means you are good at fighting a certain method. Science and knowledge with experience dictates everything. Your example is like me playing street fighter 3 third strike.
This comment calls into question whether you have ever actually fought, for obvious reasons.
Hakaider:
In reference to typical MMA fighter vs. typical TCMA practitioner:
Of course we don’t know every TMA or MMA practitioner. And I don’t claim to know everything in MA, not even close. But I am making a judgment from what I’ve seen, both in the States and when I lived overseas and what I saw there. So I was careful to say ‘typical MMA fighter’ as opposed to just someone who goes to an MMA gym to burn calories during their office break. Like in any good TMA school, there are those in MMA who are fighters and those who are not.
Regarding number of different skills, IME one who has a few skills that are trained to second nature under pressure is generally much better off than someone with unlimited options who hasn’t actually applied those techniques to their ultimate end against a resisting opponent. As effective as they can be, things like eye gouges and finger breaking cannot be purposely practiced to completion; at best they can only be approximated. OTOH, there are street people with no formal MA training at all who understand these types of tactics. Within the last couple of months in the city I live, a street person fought another man and tore one of his eyes out. Even many MAists who have practiced such things could possibly hesitate.
Sometimes too much quantity of technique and too many options creates overload under pressure. Quality (as opposed to over-quantity) of skills allows for versatility of what one does know in a variety of situations.
My personal experience is that over-intellectualizing MA is undesirable under pressure. Actions and reactions must bypass the intellect or you’ll get caught, especially in a sudden, violent situation. Over-thinking causes hesitation. As the saying goes, “If you hesitate you’ll meditate, in a horizontal position.”
over intellectualizing…
Your point is well taken Jimbo and I will expand on it. The challenge with most martial artists presently is that they do not train hard enough. What you are indicating takes a lot of repetition to ingrain technique, which most martial artists are too lazy to do. This is the reason also that ‘cross-training’ is so popular; so that people won’t get “bored”. The type of training you are advocating is boring, grueling, and painful. The type of training your are advocating is more difficult than the fighting. Another thing that present day martial artists do is create training gaps. It is one thing to take one or two days off because you are sore from the last two weeks of gruel. It is quite another thing, like boxers do, is to train several months for a fight, take the rest of the time off, to train for several months for the next fight. Most martial artists today create training gaps. Successful, functional training is to resolve that for at least the first three years, train 3 1/2 hours per day, every day, seven days a week. That means you train, literally, the equivalent of one day per week in high repetition. It is not how much you know, or how well you appear to do it, but how much you do it. That is the key. There are also the other elements of training- the five principles of combat and the five levels of engagement, which are part of the deep science. We won’t even begin to talk about footwork and timing interdiction because they are the deepest science. Every TCMA has 3-5 core moves which are the hallmarks of that training progression. These are the moves to be trained until you drop to one knee, then you get up and do them some more. What you are advocating is: train until you slip in your own sweat, mop it up, and begin again; train until you drop to one knee, then get up and do it again; train until you pass out, then when you wake up, do it again, and again, and again. That is the only way to do what you are advocating. There is no other way. Then, the fight is like taking a walk. You have to want to do this as much as you want to breath.
Pretty sure it’s some kid/kid-minded adult who’s never fought a single bout under any rule set and has recently discovered TMA and done all of his training on the web/in the local bookstore (where they only stock Art of War, Tao of Jeet Kune Do and Book of Five Rings)…
Reply to Jimbo,
The issue you all seem to be saying is resistence.
Let me give you a good example:
Let’s say you are want to be a chef. Ok, I give you all the tools (knives, chopping boards and so on and ingredients) to cook something. I put you into the kitchen and ask you to cook everyday. After 10 years you have some level of skill. But, it’s not the highest level at all. It might even be poor.
Let’s change the scenario. Let’s say a highly trained italian chef who has deep knowledge trains you to master a rich tradition of skills. He gives you knowledge and asks you to cook as well. You master a science and have way more answers to culinary situations.
The last guy just memorizes a bunch of knowledge, but never practices. He can’t cook very well, but in a kitchen he has some chance to at least create something, but lacks the experience. Obviously, he is not the most ideal. But, put under increased pressure, he will learn a lot a faster than an idiot who tries to just figure it all at as he goes.
There is fourth example, I put you in cooking competition with a reduced number of tools and no mastery of any deep cooking skills and ask you to become a high level cook from attending and focusing purely on these competitions
In other words,
MMA is not science in combat. It is a TOURNAMENT. It is not a fighting art. The levels of skill only come from mastery of knowledge. That is why TMA is infinitely valuable toward combat development. High level people will not get that way (combat mastery) from doing MMA tournaments. They need real knowledge mastery and science. That only comes from TMA.
If you don’t have resistence training as a part of your CMA training, then you working with a fraud. All forms of TMA are different and not all of them use the same types of resistence. However, MMA doesn’t prepare you for all the types of resistense as it is purely a fighting tournament. You will get resistence skills from scientific TMA study and then you can apply those skills in MMA, if you wish. However, since it is a sport, you are limited in expression of your skills. It is possible to design and create resistence that will prepare one greatly for a number of situations.
I study with my master and we always do resistence. We also study knowledge of other arts and spar against different types of martial artists. Learning is intellectual, not just getting swollen at the gym, hitting pads and then going into MMA. Again… MMA is not an MA. It has no science. It is only a tournament with rules for ENTERTAINMENT and not a fighting style or science.
Just because some schools are not intelligent enough to create, design and give high level resistense skills doesn’t mean others don’t. Just because there are many MA guys who don’t do resistence doesn’t mean the only guys who have it are MMA. I fight every other day. Hence, why I was able to win MMA matches.
The big issue with MMA is that a large amount of people in those tournaments aren’t masters of anything. They went to MMA gyms for 2 or 3 years, got huge muscles and the MMA marketing machine claims they are worlds best combatants. It is slightly fraudulent and dishonest. But, it works for monetary reasons. It is also ****ed entertaining. Let’s not fool ourselves, MMA is about money and entertainment. Martial science is not it’s main purpose. It’s main goal is put people into an octagon and make them fight. “Fighters” are expendable and injuries are life long. Pay is mediocre and glory lasts only as long as you don’t lose. When Mcgregor loses, he will be scrubbed away from memory, just like Tito, Shamrock and many others… RR will not have a great film career or be a media queen, she will be thrown under a bus in this dark sport of drug use, profanity and entertaining violence. Everyone is already moving to the next expendable.
I don’t think such TOURNAMENTS shouldn’t exist. But, saying you are an MMA fighter doesn’t mean much. The levels of fighters range widely and doing MMA doesn’t make them somehow super human or an owner of deep knowledge. Let’s not forget MMA has its fair share of mediocrity guys. Kimbo Slice in MMA didn’t make him a high level knowledgable combatant…
Knowledge is important gentlemen
what is ur TMA background?
[QUOTE=Hakaider;1299736]I am a traditional martial artist.
I studied different styles growing up and hold a black belt in 2 styles.
I have a background several disciplines and still train regularly.
I am currently working as a bodyguard.
Like most, I watched the UFC in it’s early days and was perplexed with the level of freedom and desire of those to express their artform. I remember when Jerry Springer did a show on it in the 1990’s and described it as “brutal anything goes fighting competition.” I watched it get blocked from access on American TV. I saw it re-emerge and explode with a new face and new rules. Seeing the return of UFC and then the amazing spectacle of Pride really made me excited. From 2006 - 2009, I saw forums like Sherdog become filled with MMA-aholics. I lurked and enjoyed the arguments that MMA was everything in combat and everything else was fake and useless. If you didn’t admit that MMA was the king of combat, you were either from a “Mcdojo” or you suck at fighting. Those were hilarious times for me. Silat, Krav Maga, Kung Fu… it all seemed to be nothing compared to MMA. It got to the point where the only thing that could prove you had high level combative skill was to see your MMA fight record. If you had an undefeated or even good MMA fight record, you were considered a respected and high level combatant. Times have changed. People are not so insistent in MMA as being the end all be all of fighting, but the fans are truly still crazy about it.
Unfortunately, I didn’t continue on the hype train. I lost my enthusiasm for it many years ago and stopped MMA as whole. What caused me to have this change of heart? Actually, joining MMA competitions and becoming a fighter. I have an undefeated record, not a high one 6W - 0L. But, my time in MMA was enought for me to analyze the sport in a way very few have. Not from a computer or armchair, but by actually doing it.
So, I want to provide a clear definition of MMA from someone who has both MMA and TMA experience. While I won’t be returning to “study” MMA or compete, I hope this is useful and may lead to interesting debate:
- MMA is NOT a Martial Art
Well it is taught to soldiers now so one could say it is martial .
- MMA is not form of self defense
Wrong. You are being to myopic. It could make a very effective ender failing other options to escape or avoid.
- Nearly any blending of martials art styles can be considered “MMA”
I agree but the term is universally accepted to what we watch on ppv.
- It is very different from real life combat
Well tactics may differ but an elbow in the teeth is an elbow in the teeth. That’s a **** target Billy. Wear leather !
- MMA did not create nor can own the idea of cross training
Agree.
B. Bruce Lee… the “father” of MMA
Lee studied WC 12 or 13 years. Kano studied Jujitsu 5 and was considered a master at age 21. But Lee is not given similar respect because he told dudes they sucked to his face and smacked a few.
- MMA is an entertaining SPORT
I find it boring a **** normally and skip it. The early UFC was exciting to watch. But occasionally it has been very exciting.
- MMA is extremely dangerous and just not worth the risks (business and healthwise)
Pay tends to suck. But the top guys can make some cash now. But like all sport. Its only the top guys that make the cash.
[/QUOTE]
I posted my replies under yours.
Now my definition of MMA is it is modern pankration.
Hello BoxerBilly,
Thank you for your reply.
I want to clarify a few things for you
Bruce Lee studying Wing Chun for 11 or 12 years is a myth and lie.“The largest influence on Lee’s martial arts development was his study of Wing Chun. Lee began training in Wing Chun when he was 16 years old under the Wing Chun teacher Yip Man in 1957, after losing several fights with rival gang members.” -wiki
Bruce Lee escaped to America in 1959 after beating the leader of a triad gang who supposedly put out a price on Bruce’s head. Anyone who does CMA knows that it doesn’t matter how much you train, 2 years is a short time to develop deep science. After going to the US, he opened his “Bruce Lee Wing Chun school” without his master’s blessing. After being winded in the WJM fight, he “quit” Wing Chun.
Others sources say he only studied for 1 year. However, he learned very fast. That is why his insult toward CMA was disrespectful when he himself was a gangster who learned very little of the science. He never mastered or finished out any martial science nor did he invent cross training. I respect his accomplishments, but he was a very well conditioned hypocrite. A lot of conditioning “secrets” and one inch punch theories were derived from mostly Chinese kung fu and internal science, which he never gave credit to. The fact that he was able to achieve such a level of skill from such a short time doing one type of Kung Fu should give credit to the science of CMA and TMA. Imagine if he actually fleshed out mastery of his system like Yip Man did. His level of depth and science would be very complex.
About MMA being taught to soldiers, since MMA can be a blend of anything and has no set curriculum it’s not science or MA. It’s a tournament based on a vague ideaology. Soliders are learning how to deal with what they may face on the battle field. Since, a lot of knuckle heads are watching UFC and trying to imitate what they see, all combatants should be familiar with common tactics used from those who have adopted an MMA mindset. That doesn’t make it an MA. As a police officer put it: “There are thugs watching UFC and trying to hurt people. Police officers cannot afford to not be preparing for these guys.” I couldn’t agree more. Soldier CQC has a rich vast history and varies from country to country. There is deep methodology for hand to hand strategies utilized in war. It is different from tournament entertainment.
What we see on ppv doesn’t make MMA an MA. If everyone in MMA started doing chicken leg dance fighting on ppv, that wouldn’t suddenly legitimize it as martial science. It’s just the current edition of what McMMA gyms are churning out to make money. In MMA, there is no real cohesiveness since it’s a tournament and not an MA. It’s supposed to “contain everything.” However, if it looks like everyone is fighting the same, it’s most likely due to the gyms giving everyone a similar subset of unmastered skills and low level science, then rushing them into an octagon after they are ripped. Just because everyone is doing something on ppv doesn’t somehow make it high level martial science…
Hello back.
He studied under Fook Yueng in the US.
http://www.tienshan.net/yueng.html
There is a lot of misinformation propagated by those that do not want to believe he was in fact fairly well school in WC. But he was also influenced by and learned other arts or past from other teachers. Some believe he was one of those gifted few that picked things up sometimes as easily as first view.
But regardless ones opinion of him. Lets do our best to get the facts right.
As for it being a good system for the military ? I think it has its massive benefits and some massive negatives. I don’t care to get into the whys and why not’s. Its apples and oranges .
Also, I believe it was Jesse Glover in his book, Bruce Lee - Between Wing Chun and JKD. To first notify people that Bruve Lee did in fact study with Fook Yeung. Jesse was there. Maybe not at the actual lessons. But who do you think Bruce practiced on ?
That dastardly white dude James Keating who has very close ties to Fook Yeung may be able to expand on what he knows about that time if Fook shared anything with him. He is still around and was gifted a very rare video from me through another party. Blade stuff.
Perhaps hearing from Bruce’s wife would sway you and others ? Shhhh. it was a secret. Lots of his teachers were in secret. Mutually beneficial perhaps as the article above suggests. But that’s at best informed and deduced speculation on my part. Not a fact.
http://www.kaizentao.com/linda-lee-caldwell-pays-tribute-to-bruce-lees-mentor/#prettyPhoto
Wiki isn’t always 100% accurate. BL started Wing Chun at age 13, which would have been around 1954. He left Hong Kong at 18. He had about 5 years of WC. However, Ip Man was forced to expel him from the school at one point, because some of BL’s classmates who disliked him found out that he was a quarter German, from his mother’s side. Ip Man would not teach non-Chinese.
As to BL being a gangster, yes, he was a young street punk. That he could be an a-hole is common knowledge. Historically, long before BL came along, MA society in China was often considered disreputable, often considered at a similar level as gamblers, prostitutes, actors/traveling performers, criminal groups, etc., with whom many CMAists of the past mixed. It was considered to be a part of the lower/outer strata of society. In Taiwan and elsewhere, many parents were OK with their kids studying Taekwondo, karate, judo, etc., while not approving of kung fu. I know for a fact that some schools of certain styles definitely had gangster connections.
So the idea that all kung fu masters were held in high esteem, or were benevolent wise men, or monkish and meditative is a far cry from reality. Even some of the famous, high-level masters were opium addicts. Many were also not good people, but that alone doesn’t mean they didn’t have good kung fu. The fact of somebody having been a gangster does not automatically disqualify them from having very real MA skills.
Back to BL, IMO he was NOT as great as many believe, NOR as bad as many others believe. But I will say this: There are some people who make much better progress in a couple years than many others can in a decade or more.
Interesting points all around.
About CMA teaching and accepting some gang members. Well, I am currently in Asia. I don’t want to reveal too much about myself. However, it is not true that high level CMA will encourage or even accept the idea of teaching bad people. As a whole, it is frowned upon and not generally tolerated. The core of CMA is not only external and internal. There is also a spiritual development as well. No high level master wants to see years of development wasted because their student murdered someone or went to prison. No combat scientists wants to experience the shame of seeing their prodigy break their wives bones and bully the weak. It’s the equivalent of painting a masterpiece for decades and then losing it because I painted it on sand: something with a weak foundation. Deeper skills are usually reservered for those who will not *******ize the lineage by being villians. Masters of high level science are quite selective with what they teach to who here. We have something called “Wu Wei.” Anyway…
A simple example is this interview from Yip Man:
Yip Man, smiling: “You’re right. When I learnt under Wah Kung, he was already 70. He was a bit weak at that time. However, he still corrected my mistakes with great patience. Futhermore, he also told his other students to teach me. As a result, my techniques improved at high speed.”
Ip Man in Martial arts hero magazine interview: “It’s a good question. Let me tell you why. In olden days, people were very strict concerning the teacher/student relationship. Before they admitted a student, they had to know the character of this would-be student very clearly. This is what is called ‘to choose a right student to teach’. Secondly, it also depended on whether the student could afford to pay his school fees or not”.
Grandmaster Yip stopped for awhile. He then talked in a rather low tone: “The fact is, not too many people could afford to pay for such a high school fee. For example: at the time I paid, the red packet for the ‘Student-admitting Ceremony’ had to contain 20 taels of silver. And I had to pay 8 taels of silver each month as my school fee.”
Character plays a huge role in the culture of CMA. While there are some bad people who don’t care about who they give dangerous skills to, this is not the norm. I attended a meeting with several masters from around the country where I am. We talked about this very issue. We can’t help it that there are people using the CMA label to cash in and teach the lowest of the low. My master threw out a student 2 years ago because of his behavior and some problems he had.
Bruce Lee was beating up his classmates and instructors. He was fighting with gangs. He did the exact opposite of what made Yip Man so well respected. He was a bully. Yip Man was not a fool. Why did he make William Cheung promise not to teach ANYONE all of Wing Chun, including Bruce (a person with great potential). Why didn’t Yip Man continue teaching Bruce afterward even when Bruce came back to visit him? Bruce came back to China as a huge star and Yip Man refused to get in a car with him. I highly doubt Yip Man was simply racist. Bruce Lee was a loose cannon. While he was proud of Bruce, he was a moral man as well. He often reduced tuition for students and took his time to guide them. I could be wrong, but something doesn’t seem right about this “Yip Man racist” picture. While his students may have had a problem with Bruce, it could have been associated with him being a rage addict who tried to beat them up and not only his German ancestry. If Bruce was a great person and not a thug like gangster, I am sure the story would have been a lot different.
Have you heard of Robert Ho Tung Bosman (). The Ho Tung family was one of the wealthiest and powerful families in Hong Kong. He was the RICHEST man in HK by the age 34. He was knighted by the british government. Was all of this power clean? This I don’t know… But, that kind of power doesn’t come without a backing that is very complicated.
I don’t think I should be talking about this… But, here it goes. Have you heard of the Tung Triad family ? They still have power today. You can draw your own conclusions. There is a very odd coincidence in the connection between Mr. Tung’s wealth with a rise in triad activity especially around the time his family gained great power. A bounty was placed on Bruce’s head by a powerful triad leader before he escaped to the US.
Grace Ho was Bruce Lee’s mother. The daughter of Robert Ho. You don’t just say no to people like this. Bruce grew up spoiled and was extremely egotistical. They sent him to Yip Man because they were worried about him getting hurt in a gang fight. It is highly possible that it wasn’t favorable for Yip Man to go to Bruce parents (One of the most powerful families in HK whose influence can still be felt today) and say, “Your son is growing up to be a hooligan that will bring trouble to our school with his gangland antics and I can’t teach him anymore.” I don’t think the matter of stopping Bruce’s study was simply because he was 1/4 German and Yip Man was a racist who was willing to walk away from a large amount of money because of some western blood. This comes up again when Bruce said WJM challenged Bruce because he taught white people. WJM’s history proves that’s not true as he also taugh a wide range of nationalities. Unfortunately, WJM was vililanized as racist due to Bruce Lee’s lie. Especially in the Bruce Lee story film. Many people in CMA were angry with Bruce because he was arrogant and a jerk. His reaction was to call them racists who didn’t like him because he taught “real kung fu” to white people. I do believe those close to Bruce may have covered for him as well due to the benefits they could get as well.
About his time spent learning Wing Chun, you are correct about it being around 5 years. From age 13 to 18. I remember it being about the same amount of time. (I wasn’t too sure, so I checked wiki. Meh…I read some old interviews and confirmed my intitial thought. Thank you btw) I do believe the power of Bruce’s family definetly influenced everyone in HK and may have brought trouble to those who didn’t comply. Regardless, 5 years is still quite short in CMA. The age of 13 to 18 is also a very developmental time. The system I am learning takes years of scientific study. I couldn’t have dreamed to call myself a master in 5 years, let alone open a school behind my masters back named after myself like Bruce disrespectfully did. The more I stay in my system, the deeper the puzzles get. For high level CMA, the conditioning itself and internal practice takes lots of rigorous scientific study. The MA I study is very old and is divided into 4 systems with 8 subsystems that each have their own variety of sets and sciences. Especially, in terms of mastery some spend years focusing on a part of it. Very few can high level in all of it. From age 13 to 18, Bruce never mastered a science or MA, period. His behavior when he started disrespecting “flowery” TMA was not viewed favorably for this reason. He couldn’t understand certain knowledge, so he dismissed them as rediculous. Especially calling older masters, “tigers without teeth” in front of the CMA community.
I do agree that people can learn very fast, but science has layers. I can say from doing CMA that it is a lot of mental and physical work. The layers only get peeled back with time and patience.
Well that may help explain is success ?
Why he is so hated even among the Asians is beyond me. He proved a Chinese man could become important and popular and respected and admired by all in a place that still gave him lots of guff for looking different. He did not fight the system. He found a way to work in it. Sadly, he did not live to see his own world wide impact. Hero in my opinion.
He was The American Dream for everyone.
I forgot LOVED !
Hakaider:
Well, I am only telling you what I have personally observed and experienced (and not only heard about), which I won’t be discussing. Anyone is free to believe or disbelieve. You can also look back at many masters in history. Also keep in mind that ‘bad people’ or ‘mean people’ generally don’t consider themselves ‘bad people’ or ‘mean people’. There were also a LOT of famous masters who, while they weren’t necessarily part of a criminal element, simply had VERY bad temperaments. I’m not saying ‘all’, I’m saying ‘a lot of’.
As you said earlier, we don’t know the entire CMA world, or every CMAist in history. To deny my personal observations, or to imply that it was extremely rare that it happened, is to assume that you know all about CMA history, and what is happening in the CMA world everywhere. That is OPINION. Perhaps it’s a certain way wherever you are, or among those whose company you are in. If so, you’re very fortunate, and that is a good thing. But I know what I know.
As for Ip Man/Yip Man being ‘racist’. Maybe, maybe not. Among CMA teachers of his generation and earlier, any willingness to teach anyone of non-Chinese extraction would have been EXTREMELY rare and in most instances unheard of. We want to think of history as being very open and progressive; maybe some people take the image of Ip Man from the Donnie Yen movies literally. But even in the movie he was very conservative. I’m betting the real Ip Man was even more conservative than that. Among many early 20th-century CMA masters, there were still hard feelings due to war, colonialism, as well as the Boxer Rebellion.
Until very recent history, a high percentage of people of every race and nationality were what we would now refer to as ‘racist’. We can deny until we’re blue in the face. It wasn’t unusual; it was the way it was. Whether through a real or perceived need for self-protection or through ignorance, it doesn’t really matter at this point.
Hakaider,
I’ve read Yip Man was also a trouble maker in his youth. Getting into lots of fights as a youngster. Perhaps a loose cannon as well.
Also from a well to do family.
Science has sequence. Perhaps as Lee went on he concluded certain sequence’s were not needed. But perhaps , in fact some things he discarded were useful learning blocks for others understanding ? But then again, it may depend on ones point of view as to what is the most efficient way to end it instead of perhaps busting the guy up before ending it ? As to more esoteric practice. I simply do not understand enough about them. Which he may have learned and if he thought they where all garbage or not. He once practiced Iron Palm but seems to have dropped it or did not pass it on. It may have been time factor considerations and is it needed type stuff ?
More or less is it worth the effort for the gain. Is there a faster way that is equal or close and less time consuming. The man lived by the clock. We can judge by his meticulous record keeping.
Just had a funny thought. The wing chun wall bag, okay its cross art. It was invented as a in home heavy bag substitute for children that did not shake the house or ruin the ceiling. Because no matter what we look like your mom did not care what kind of kung fu you knew. She was going to beat you butt for making so much noise and ruining the house.