[QUOTE=YungChun;1010491]I figure eventually some folks are going to end up actually applying VT in a serious way and very successfully in some open/NHB events…
[/QUOTE]
Some people already have.
If VT is worth its weight in salt as a fighting art then it has to eventually catch on.. All you need is some dedicated folks–dedicated to VT and dedicated to applying it in sport fighting…
If you want to fight, then you have to train like all fighters train. If you don’t train like a fighter, you won’t develop any fighting skill.
As information continues to flow and training continues to improve I think we’ll see more and more VT tactics and even VT proper taking its place in more top sport fighting venues..
No, you won’t. Just the opposite is going to happen – you are going to see fewer and fewer successful fighters coming from “styles” or “arts” (that’s what happened in the past because everyone learned that way) and more and more coming from gyms that just train all-around fighters (as more MMA gyms become decentralized from styles).
I have already seen bits and parts here and there in NHB/MMA. You can’t help see parts of VT because IMO VT’s core is about what simply works and key universal fighting attributes; good fighters naturally express some of these things naturally.
I think it’s rather a case of projection.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1010488]
If we want to compete in this new world of fighting that ACTUALLY works(ufc prves it every pay per view) we need to stop training just for the sake of trying to keep a wing chun identity.
What should we remove from training? I’ll throw the first rock. We need to get rid of dan chi sao and long amounts of time in forms training.
What’s next to be gotten rid of? Remember, I said gotten rid off, not added.[/QUOTE]
OH OH I’ll go next!!!
ANY prearranged response to an attack that has more than 1-2 moves in it. I can’t stand those “if he does this then you do this, then he will do this and you do this-this-and this”. Yea…whatever.
I always have conversations with peers about these drills. The guy says we do this, then you do this, and blah blah. I say–“well I’d just hit you in one beat by using a cutting punch instead of fuch around for 3 beats and then hit.”
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1010494]
If you want to fight, then you have to train like all fighters train. If you don’t train like a fighter, you won’t develop any fighting skill.
[/quote]
Hmmm.. So you’re saying that you have to fight? Could you elaborate on this?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1010494]
No, you won’t. Just the opposite is going to happen – you are going to see fewer and fewer successful fighters coming from “styles” or “arts”
[/quote]
So you’re saying that we will not see VT continue to take it’s place along side other arts..in NHB/MMA while you also claim that it has begun to already..
Time will tell.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1010488]
What should we remove from training? I’ll throw the first rock. We need to get rid of dan chi sao [/QUOTE]
Take out DanChiSao and you might as well take out all the forms/drills and ChiSao as well.. Then go pull out a phone book and start looking for another art to disembowel.
Using the core curriculum as it was intended to build attributes and cultivate VT tactics, with lots of energy and release of power would be a better option..
[QUOTE=Vankuen;1010498]OH OH I’ll go next!!!
ANY prearranged response to an attack that has more than 1-2 moves in it. I can’t stand those “if he does this then you do this, then he will do this and you do this-this-and this”. Yea…whatever.
I always have conversations with peers about these drills. The guy says we do this, then you do this, and blah blah. I say–“well I’d just hit you in one beat by using a cutting punch instead of fuch around for 3 beats and then hit.”[/QUOTE]
I’ve never heard of such training in VT..
VT does not have “prearranged moves”..
Yung chun,
you mentioned that fighters will eventually be doing wing chun in mma but in what form? Are they going to be doing pak sau and lap da…or are they going to be using the liberal wing chun(use whatver they want and then just call it wing chun)? Which is the real wing chun?
T_niehoff,
when you said that people are already using wing chun in mma were you referring to Alan Orr? I do not know Alan and I’m sure he’s talented but why do you call what he does wing chun? It doesn’t look any different than what every other mma guy is doing in the octagon. Just because Alan calls it CSL wing chun that doesn’t make it wing chun… Or does it? Alan might as well have never studied wing chun because he is basically doing the same as every other mma guy. The fact that he’s been successful is due to him and not his style. GSP is successful but he doesn’t claim wing chun. I feel like if I won fights in the octagon, claimed to be MAINLY studying wing chun, you would say that I’m doing wing chun too. Even if all my fights were rolling around on the ground you’d be like, “Savvysavage is clearly using wing chun.”. But only cause I’m winning. I’m not attacking you. It just seems like you’re front running a bit. If Alan was getting beaten to pulp every match would you still have say he was using wing chun?
We need to define wing chun because we’ve lost our identity. Or maybe others have been right all along. Wing chun(and all chinese martial arts) are just glorified kickboxing. Maybe we should stop holding on to the label wing chun because the way some of you describe it is too liberal.
The labels and forms are bs. Fuk tan sau. Fuk the wooden dummy form. If you all say that wing chun needs those…but them you train bjj and win with that then you might as well stop practicing the forms, chi sao, etc.
[QUOTE=YungChun;1010515]Take out DanChiSao and you might as well take out all the forms/drills and ChiSao as well.. Then go pull out a phone book and start looking for another art to disembowel.
Using the core curriculum as it was intended to build attributes and cultivate VT tactics, with lots of energy and release of power would be a better option..
I’ve never heard of such training in VT..
VT does not have “prearranged moves”..[/QUOTE]
Trust me, there are plenty of places that do it. These are the “core” drills that are meant to instill natural reaction through repititve motion. Sort of like a boxer practicing a right cross and then drop. But some chunners take it to the extent where there’s too many moves involved. Even a porearranged drill should be a piece of the pie, and shouldn’t be more than a couple moves at best. After prerranged exercises are proficiently done…time to move on to spontaneous sparring drills and sparring sessions.
Wck people should get rid o drills that involve the old “if he moves that way you do this.”. IMO those scenarios are not realistic. Good one, vankuen.
Terrence,
I asked a question of you in the last post of page 3. Please respnd when you get a moment. Thanks