Someone told me that if I punch with my
When I learned WC, I didn’t learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my “right” fist. He used his “right” Bong Shou to block it.
I’m a bit confused. Is it correct in your opinion?
Experiment with it. But I think you will find it is a bit awkward. I rarely use bong against a punch that is thrown before engagement.
Using a right bong-sau against a right punch would be considered a ‘wrong bong’ because you’ve crossed yourself and left openings on your blindside. The dummy set gives recovery options for such a situation however.
I think that’s the point. Where I come from though, both are wrong! Bong-sau shouldn’t even be used to block a single punch you know is coming. It’s a purely defensive action. You need another step to return fire, but it may be too late if more punches are coming down on you.
Bong sao is part of an attack. Many assume it to be a defensive action from misinformed coaching.
Bong sao is always accompanied with wu sao , wu is a new attack.
Accidents happen, we make mistakes. A wrong bong or wrong jum, wrong Pak all happen. It’s part of the mindset to recover from these errors. Equally we also learn to attack defensive errors so that partners don’t hesitate stop and think they have to be perfect. ; ) in mutual drilling we make mistakes so they are treated as opportunities to attack and recover From.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1222875]Someone told me that if I punch with my
When I learned WC, I didn’t learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my “right” fist. He used his “right” Bong Shou to block it.
I’m a bit confused. Is it correct in your opinion?[/QUOTE]
There are many ways to recover from errors. No dogma.
A good answer. You know who is indeed confused. Wing chun IMO is not about having single fixed response toa single technique.
If you didn’t get hit, you did it right enough.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1222892]If you didn’t get hit, you did it right enough.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. Many things can be pulled of when you know whats coming, that doesnt mean its the right response to learn
[QUOTE=jesper;1222897]I disagree. Many things can be pulled of when you know whats coming, that doesnt mean its the right response to learn[/QUOTE]
True … Concepts are a broader approach to war. Nobody knows what is coming.
[QUOTE=anerlich;1222892]If you didn’t get hit, you did it right enough.[/QUOTE]
Yes …
Bong sau, conceptually, should always be “created” by the incoming force once contact is already made. It ‘could’ be created by a right arm to right arm force but that most likely would be the result of improper facing. Nonetheless, the scenario you described sounds like nothing more than chasing, poorly at that…
[QUOTE=WC1277;1223078]Bong sau, conceptually, should always be “created” by the incoming force once contact is already made. It ‘could’ be created by a right arm to right arm force but that most likely would be the result of improper facing. Nonetheless, the scenario you described sounds like nothing more than chasing, poorly at that…[/QUOTE]
Not true, the spatial relationship and tactical goal can lead us to bong well before pre contact you mention.
If an arm x mine from above as I attack I use bong sao with ging lik to slap arms away.
Contact is measured in milliseconds not by misguided perpetual arm pressure seekers aka chasers.
Like chum kil we make bongs in space and time to match our body weight in motion, to harness momentum in a kinetic release to coincide with bong/ wu moment.
correct bong shou
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1222875]Someone told me that if I punch with my
When I learned WC, I didn’t learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my “right” fist. He used his “right” Bong Shou to block it.
I’m a bit confused. Is it correct in your opinion?[/QUOTE]
Hello Sifu. What immediately came to mind is a technique used throughout Cotton Needle training called ‘clinging hand’. What this technique does is attach and cling to the strike from the outside of the bridge and goes over the bridge to the inside of the bridge. It is an outside to inside move that is very short and quick. Did the net effect of what your opponent did, put him inside of your bridge? All the best.
SKM
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1223086]Not true, the spatial relationship and tactical goal can lead us to bong well before pre contact you mention.
If an arm x mine from above as I attack I use bong sao with ging lik to slap arms away.
Contact is measured in milliseconds not by misguided perpetual arm pressure seekers aka chasers .[/QUOTE]
Both the definition of arm chasing and a good way to get hit you described there. If trained correctly with body unity one can measure contact in milliseconds with pressure. My goal is to kill the opponent directly and head on. My “technique” or response, so to speak, is only the result of the opponent trying to “move” that attack, hence force, pressure, whatever. I don’t care if I get hit and if I do it’s because of bad timing on my part. I play my game, not his. WC “positions” are not applications but potential responses. Why chi sao as the pinnacle drill if this wasn’t true?
It doesn’t really matter.
It all depends on how you would like to counter it. If you would want to come around to the outside gate, right on right would be best. If you want to hit on the inside, right on left and vice versa. If you want to follow up with a lap sau, once again, it doesn’t matter which side you bong sau! 
But, as others said, bong sau isn’t really supposed to be a movement that you should go to first. It should only made when pressure is put on the outside of an extended hand which then collapses into bong sau. “Elbow like iron, Arm like a blade of grass.”
The important things are to keep proper structure, constant attack on the centerline, and to NOT chase the hand.
[QUOTE=SKM;1223088]Did the net effect of what your opponent did, put him inside of your bridge? [/QUOTE]
Not sure I should go into more detail about what had happened after that. It had proved my belief, but it may conflict with other’s belief.
A lot of chi sao is redundant in actual fighting.
Chi sao gives us many attributes but we need to literally " step away " in different directions so the facing and arm skills are used when engaging a " moving target " capable of erratic movement … Not just ygkym and rolling arm combat.
Certain arm angles are developed for maintaining their integrity when making sudden impact. Bong sao is “developed” in chi sao along with other drills but the redundant factor is a bong doesn’t have to seek contact to be created. It can be as chum kil , a combination of dynamics involving timing to harness forces capable of creating opportunities to lat sao jik chun. Whole body lsjc.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1222875]Someone told me that if I punch with my
When I learned WC, I didn’t learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my “right” fist. He used his “right” Bong Shou to block it.
I’m a bit confused. Is it correct in your opinion?[/QUOTE]
This can be argued back and forth forever, but the fact is you are right to be confused. Was this one of the students or sifu that showed you this? Bong sao is like when someone goes for your crotch. You jerk your butt back and bring in your knees in an effort to prevent contact. A knee jerk movement really. Bong is used in an emergency when you are out of position or in an awkward position and can not recover in time to do a proper defense. A cross bong like that only leaves your entire side open to attack. It looks good used with other techniques when training, but in an all out fight it will get the $hit knocked out of you. If you only have one arm, then yea, go ahead and cross bong if you absolutely have to. Otherwise, keep it as something you can use in an emergency and not as a primary defense action.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1223580]Was this one of the students or sifu that showed you this?[/QUOTE]
He is a quite famous TCMA Sifu. Since his students were with him, when he said, “punch me”, I knew he was going to use me as his demo dummy, and performed some skill infront of his students. What he didn’t know was, there is no way that I would put myself into that situation. He needed to protect his face infront of his students, but I needed to protect my face infront of his students too. I’m quite pleased with the peaceful ending that I had intentionally created. Nobody got hurt or losed face.
It’s quite difficult to deal with the situation when someone that you just meet the 1st time, and that person asked, “punch me”.