yao
It doesn’t really matter to me, but to try to link wah lum to tcpm then i think it is important where 8 chain punch came from. if he got it from choy li fut or one of his hung gar friends then it is hard to say 8 chain punch came from tcpm. that was my original point.
Ok, fair enough. I leave those things to the historians like Keven. It’s all interesing but I’m more concerned with damaging the human body with the least effort. 
It’s such a basic exercise it could have come from anywhere, Tan Tui maybe. I did similar in Karate. Haven’t seen it as such in CLF.
Somebody should post a clip of it in the main forum and see what the masses think.
You know, 36 Hands was created to compete in southern tournaments. So how does a northern style practitioner create a southern form? Obviously he knows some southern style kung fu. So I’m sure there was a southern influence in the beginning. Whatever came after that could be all southern for all we know.
WTF is this??!! I was looking to see if it was on youtube already.
Weird angles though.
8 chain punch
that video was hilarious, someone needs to strip that black belt off the guy
Found Wah Lum Beng Bu.
[QUOTE=Yao Sing;1149655]Found Wah Lum Beng Bu.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if this was a creation of Shifu Chan? It has only a few moves similar to HK Seven Star Bung Bu and even less in common with Meihua versions of Beng Bu.
Nice looking form though, regardless of the origin.
I never even recognized it as Beng Bu until Kevin pointed it out. I do see where WL does variations of moves found in other NPM styles. Since MC has a bunch of manuscripts, and knows how to interpret them, I sometimes get the impression that some of the moves are the interpreted version of standard NPM moves.
Like the waist chop, I believe WL has it’s own version that would fit the description but look different. There are others too.
I really don’t think MC created it though. It’s probably one of the few forms he brought with him when he first came here.
big mantis
i have seen 2 different versions, one version was from chan wan ching. they are pretty close.
Greetings,
Question:
Baat Leen Choy= Eight Chain (Connected, Linked, Continuous) Hammers?
Edit: I did some small web based research using the Eight Hammers and found a thread that links it to Taiji Praying Mantis, the style developed by Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai. Look at paragraph seven, Master Fong lists all eight hammers (fist techniques):
http://www.i-chuan.net/pages2/Choy8.html
Do the hammers line up with what you have?
More: In the “Master Praise” section of Tornado Broadswords (if not there then it is in the First Fist Form Book) Grandmaster Chiu openly acknowledged that he and Grandmaster Chan corresponded with each other. If these punches line up, then is it possible that Grandmaster Chiu may have been the source.
Please notice that I am not saying anything declarative about the connection other than the possibility.
mickey
A reliable source told me that Chan Pui use to visit Master Chiu Chuk Kai. Who knows, maybe there was an exchange of information. I always had a hunch all those Hong Kong Masters in those days maybe shared.
Yao, I learned Big Mantis from Sean Cochran. This version you put up is similar, but the one Sean taught has more details and done alot more powerful. Note: this fellow was probably just showing the form. Anywho, you can clearly see the beng bu. Thinking about breaking this one out for old times sakes!
Merry Christmas!
Jim
Greetings,
If the correspondences line up, I’d find it amusing because Mantis108 has had a fascination about Wah Lum’s influences for years and all he had to do was look in his own back yard, for starters; unless he knew all along.
mickey
[QUOTE=18elders;1149812]i have seen 2 different versions, one version was from chan wan ching. they are pretty close.[/QUOTE]
I’ve been wanting to catch up to you about that. Last time I was in Tampa I didn’t have time to visit anyone but maybe next time.
[QUOTE=yu shan;1149838]A reliable source told me that Chan Pui use to visit Master Chiu Chuk Kai. Who knows, maybe there was an exchange of information. I always had a hunch all those Hong Kong Masters in those days maybe shared.
Yao, I learned Big Mantis from Sean Cochran. This version you put up is similar, but the one Sean taught has more details and done alot more powerful. Note: this fellow was probably just showing the form. Anywho, you can clearly see the beng bu. Thinking about breaking this one out for old times sakes!
Merry Christmas!
Jim[/QUOTE]
I’ve talked with students from early days that started out with what’s currently considered advanced sets. Maybe he needed some beginner material so he could move his core sets to the higher levels.
Also, I don’t know anything about the guy in the clip or where he learned it but it seems to be about the same as I learned but maybe like you said missing a little detail. Haven’t looked that closely at it.
Mickey
In the First Form book the forward by Shek Kin calls it Shantung Praying Mantis as does Chiu Chuk Kai in his forward in the Tornado Broadsword book. CCK also said he never met him but only corrosponded. However, Paul Kwan (TCPM) wrote a forward in the First Form book also so there’s two TCPM connections.
Yao Sing,
If you read my post carefully, I never wrote they met. I did write, like yourself, that they corresponded with each other.
mickey
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply (If you read my post carefully, I never said you said they met), just mentioning, like you did, what is in the book since I had both within reach.
Thanks for keeping it civil guys, I can tell from previous posts that these kinds of issues can raise emotions.
I’m grateful that there seems to be some useful stuff coming up in this thread. I need to get those three books mentioned as well.
In relation to 8 Chain Punch, it was taught to me as a “basic exercise” of which I have heard there were/many. Some of the people in my school have referred to 8 Chain Punch as “9th Basic Exercise” but only rarely. None of them consider it a form but it does have a name and people work on it and keep it handy.
I think you’re reading way too much into all this. Eight chain punch is one of those forms people make up to put in their curriculums because they don’t have any beginner’s sets for newbs to start off with. The same goes for Little Mantis and Sixteen Hands. (I learned some Wah Lum from a guy in the early 80’s-those sets along with Eight Kicks, Single stick and broadsword))
The Karate guy (United Studios Shaolin Kempo)doing it is because Steve DeMasco studied with Yao Li in Boston and brought the wah-lum forms into his teaching for his advanced students. They mixed it in with some of the Hung-Ga/Fu Jow forms he learned from Ng Tak Wah, hence the Hung-Gar-amatized opening.
It’s funny how these forms go around. I used to teach it, but modified it somewhat, taught it at a Chinese Center to the children. One of those kids evidently taught it to Sifu Gau (the wushu guy who played the Marshal in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon,) who now teaches my modified version to HIS students! I further modified it to better fit in with the foundational skills I wanted to teach and it is our beginner’s first form,“Siu Sup Ji Kuen.”
Yao Sing,
I reread your post. My apologies.
mickey
8 chain punches at dawn, the survivor doesn’t have to apoligize!!! 
So does anyone find the reference to Shantung Praying Mantis interesting or meaningful?
HAHAHA!!
I love that one Yao Sing.
With regard to the Shantung Mantis reference, I found that to be the way the older generation referred to different styles-- by their place of origin.
mickey