Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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I find this stance(horse) is more than Chi Kung Horse Stance use for training the tendons…I see it as also a transitional stance when fighting. Which allows you utilize your knees and both kicking legs easily. Also it allows you to switch elbow striking posistions and cycle with both elbows…

The Horse is 50/50…So you can have equal power with both striking hands. How ever its a temporary posistion to get off a series of elbows or set your opponent up for SLT based strike. You should move from YGKYM to Ding Ma…From Ding Ma one should either Biu Ma or Toh Ma..But at times when YGKYM is more beneficial one should utilize it.

Have you been able to utilize YGKYM whilst sparring?

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You have about beat this one to death haven’t you? YGKYM is not a horse stance. And yes, it is akways beneficial any time you fight.

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1189105]You have about beat this one to death haven’t you? YGKYM is not a horse stance. And yes, it is akways beneficial any time you fight.[/QUOTE]

Lee Chiang Po…i utilize vocabulary you guys may disagree with…i call it a stance, a horse etc…The word Stance/Horse are interchangable to me!

4

Is there any way we can get some moderation here? I have no issue with people starting threads, but I think this guy is just doing it to bog down the forum. So many threads started by this guy, all very similar to ones that are either currently going on, or identical to ones he has already started…

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At least he’s keeping the forum alive

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1189114]At least he’s keeping the forum alive[/QUOTE]

How can you tell?

7

Or he’s trying to kill it…

8

Mah = Horse.

9

The Gods suffer ennui. Where is a worthy question or subject that has not already been given enough stage to the ignorant??? :slight_smile:

10

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1189121]Mah = Horse.[/QUOTE]

This is commonly used for kung fu stances, but then this came from a man that spoke Canton. He explained to me that Yi gi Kim yang Mah refered to standing a particular way, and made no reference to horse. Of the Chinese dialects, none of them can accurately be translated into English. The closest thing to this description would be standing pigeon toed in English.

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1189289]This is commonly used for kung fu stances, but then this came from a man that spoke Canton. He explained to me that Yi gi Kim yang Mah refered to standing a particular way, and made no reference to horse. Of the Chinese dialects, none of them can accurately be translated into English. The closest thing to this description would be standing pigeon toed in English.[/QUOTE]

The most accurate translation would be “two-character squeezing sheep stance” and it is thusly named because this is how people stand when they shear sheep.

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[QUOTE=Bacon;1189297]The most accurate translation would be “two-character squeezing sheep stance” and it is thusly named because this is how people stand when they shear sheep.[/QUOTE]

I was told that, but it was goats instead of sheep. Before he fled the commies he raised some sort of long haired goats and he explained that it was like holding a goat between the knees. But still no reference to horse.

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1189305]I was told that, but it was goats instead of sheep. Before he fled the commies he raised some sort of long haired goats and he explained that it was like holding a goat between the knees. But still no reference to horse.[/QUOTE]

  • Ma = Horse :confused: This is the reference to the ‘word’ horse and in most traditional wushu the horse is referencing the stance or whole body unity required to stand and fight.

“Different horses for different courses” and all that.

  • Yeung = Goat :slight_smile: Although there are those in the mainland that have been told this is actually ‘Yang’ (as is Yin Yang) and concentrate on the K1 point in the foot, clamping or squeezing the yang meridian.

I was taught Goat, as a reference to the mountainous regions of Fujian and specifically where the old southern temples used to be built. Goat herding was very common and possibly linked to the character of Wing Chun herself as she was supposedly a ‘masculine’ sort of tomboy who was strong and unafraid of hard work. Goat shearing specifically uses our clamped knee methods.

Our lighter stepping work too is suited for such regions where the ground is never even, and as a bit of trivia did you know that every part of a Goat can be utilised and used in Chinese Medicine? I found that very interesting indeed…

14

While I was taught Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah as:

= Yi, Two
= Ji, Word
= Kim, Clamp/Grip
= Yeung, Goat
= Mah, Horse (stance)

from my Moy Yat Ving Tsun Kuen background, this is not the translation I have learned from my education in Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen. As LoneTiger108 pointed out the alternative translation, we also point to this translation:

= Yi, Two
= Ji, Word
= Kim, Clamp/Grip
= Yeung/Yang
= Horse (Stance)

In this instance, the pronunciation of Goat and “Yang” are very similar and be easily confused as “Yeung”. For one, the Yin-Yang theory is also referred to as Yim-Yeung. and sound very similar but a two totally different words.

Yeung in the “alternative” character ()has a few meanings: [1] positive (electricity) [2] male; masculine [3] the sun; sunlight; solar.
While I think most people would chalk this up to just a difference in words, I am more inclined to ask “why”.

To play a bit of devil’s advocate (no offense intended to anyone) and more to the point of the Wing Chun art supposedly being focused away from animal-style based kung fu mechanics, I find it contradictory for the “mother stance” of Wing Chun to be based on the notion of holding down sheep/goats with your knees. Why? What does that have to do with combat? Is Wing Chun based on Snake, Crane, and Goats? Wing Chun is first and foremost a human-structured based system which sets it apart from using the more “traditional” Shaolin animal kung fu mechanics.

Let’s then ask ourselves what exactly does holding down sheep/goats have with the art of Wing Chun? Do we hold such reverence for the farmers and countryside people who tended to livestock as to use that as a base for the entire art? How many of you practice your Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah training over a goat?

I also heard that another explanation was that on the Red Boats this stance was used to steady oneself for training. If so, once again we have an occurrence of the stance being driven by environmental circumstances. How many of you have successfully held your Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah AND do Wing Chun on a moving boat? I’ve tried this a few times at 25 knots (about 29 mph) and 40 knots (about 46 mph) on smooth and rough waters. I can tell you it doesn’t work and is completely impractical to use for that environment.

From what I gather on the Yeung/Yang version (), this use must be in reference to the Yin-Yang/Yim-Yeung Theory of balance and harmony. In Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen, the Heaven Human Earth concept is a central theme of the science. The Yin-Yang symbol is most illustratively presented at the base of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun logo designated as the Earth element. This can be emblematic to the reasoning that at the foundation of all things, balance and harmony must be established first before engaging external forces. Hence why in Siu Nim Tao we learn to be still first, so that as we develop the ability to influence other forces through our Pak, Taan, Bong, etc… we discover our greatest strength is in our ability to hold our ground. Later when we move our horse to advance or adjust, it is done so with the essence of the Yi Ji Kim Yeung Mah intact rather than left behind. This explanation holds more substance as it resonates with the scientific basis of the Wing Chun art, for me, than the alternative.

15

Ma = Horse/Stance

just saying

http://www.wingchun.edu.au/media/wing-chun-articles/jim-fung/wing-chun-stance

http://www.kwokwingchun.com/training-tips/stances-and-kicking/the-wing-chun-stance/

http://www.wingchunlife.com/what-is-the-wing-chun-fighting-stance.html

http://www.ipmanwingchunfrance.com/Stances–and–Kicks.php

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Does it work? Can you fight? Just sayin’.

17

in my experience, yjkym when used in training teaches the student to develop a strong root, as you cannot place one foot back to stabilize.
Rooting becomes, “internal.”
No, not the tree-hugging,ch’i-blast, internal, ya knuckleheads,
But being in touch with the squeezing, contracting, spiraling, and alignments that goes on inside when trying to root while applying forward pressure, or receiving it.
An example would be during chi-sao,
or when you are working the mook yan jong, and apply the double palm strike, and rock the jong-without being moved backward.

Another use is when training live drills. You stand in yjkym to allow you the ability to go in whichever direction you need to to attack your opponent’s attack, much the way you stand to receive a serve in tennis.
You can also say that when used in fighting, it does not give your opponent your blind side.

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[QUOTE=TenTigers;1189373]in my experience, yjkym when used in training teaches the student to develop a strong root, as you cannot place one foot back to stabilize.
Rooting becomes, “internal.”
No, not the tree-hugging,ch’i-blast, internal, ya knuckleheads,
But being in touch with the squeezing, contracting, spiraling, and alignments that goes on inside when trying to root while applying forward pressure, or receiving it.
An example would be during chi-sao,
or when you are working the mook yan jong, and apply the double palm strike, and rock the jong-without being moved backward.

Another use is when training live drills. You stand in yjkym to allow you the ability to go in whichever direction you need to to attack your opponent’s attack, much the way you stand to receive a serve in tennis.
You can also say that when used in fighting, it does not give your opponent your blind side.[/QUOTE]

Much truth on ygkym.

Ignore Yoshiyahu…on all threads!!

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[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1189377]Ignore Yoshiyahu…on all threads!![/QUOTE]

God knows we had tried :frowning: … but he’s like an poor stray puppy, once you give it some thing to eat because you felt sorry for it, now it will not leave.

20

The stronger ones root is, the more he or she could bring their system to life, and it’s the best way to develop sensitivity within ones upper extremities by having a strong connection to the floor. “Wing Chun’s Soft Approach” is based on a strong stance.

Let’s face it, the softer you are the better you can read ones intensions off a block or even from eye sensitivity, the stronger ones root is through relaxation will develop the ease of mental assuredness and confidents upon a stressful situation.

You can’t turn into a curve going a 100mph by being ridged and stiff, but if one relaxes he or she will develop enough eye sensitivity to gain field management to take that turn successfully (Tokyo Drift) and with a better time as well. This would not be accomplished unless the car itself was developing to do so.

Just as ‘Tai Chi’ stresses the ideal of a strong root to develop softness in ones upper extremities, our system has the same mental connection as “The Grand Ultimate Fist”, far as developing softness and sensitivity from a stance point of view.

And no, you don’t have to take ‘Tai Chi’ to relate to what I’m saying, but if you study or have studied ‘Tai Chi’; Wing Chun’s ‘soft approach’ could very well be something for you to look into, just my personnel opinion. And I’m not being Hyper-individualistic or perpetuating any form of temerity, just sharing what I’ve been taught

Hope you enjoy,

http://detroitwingchun.com/kenart1.htm

Ali