Because I am from the William Cheung branch we do not use this at all. Over the years I have heard many arguments against this being used in any way or at least as a fighting stance. I have read a bit about it but not enough to really understand it. So I am going to ask what is it’s uses and how is it used in your system if you use it at all? Cheung practiced Wing Chun under Ip Man I find it hard to understand why it’s not used in our system if he had learned it. I have seen a few who come from other branches doing Siu Lim Tau and it seemed to me they left it out as well but I think they used it in other areas.
As a fighting stance I don’t see it’s usefulness although I have seen some similar techniques in other arts but they were used only as a step in transitioning between stances. One such example was talking about protecting the Femoral Artery during a knife attack. This came from a Ninjutsu technique I read about as a kid. I believe I have even seen Hung Gar people turning into such a stance but again it was a transitioning movement between stances.
Hello,
The stance is for training, not for fighting. I doubt you will find anyone, compentent anyhow, trying to utilize this stance in actual combat. However, this stance is found in many other arts to include several of the Silat or Kuntao variety.
It’s clearly not a fighting stance despite what some practitioners of a certain lineage assert. IMO, it’s used to strengthen legs, and for internal strength development.
Here is what CST says
“We want to measure a good position with the natural stance or Yee Chi Kim Yeung Ma. After finishing the natural stance, both of my feet are angle inward to form a triangle shape if you image there are two lines extends from my both feet where the tip of my toes and the tip of my heel to the front of my body. When both imaginary lines of my feet reached an intersection, it creates a point. This point is where we put our entire body force. When we punch, we must use that point as our target.”
He goes on to say you are supposed to pull up the perineum, straighten the spine and thus the ‘hei’ will rise. I am assuming corresponds to chi.
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1098394]Hello,
The stance is for training, not for fighting. I doubt you will find anyone, compentent anyhow, trying to utilize this stance in actual combat. However, this stance is found in many other arts to include several of the Silat or Kuntao variety.[/QUOTE]
We use it to train the foot angles that in turn stabilize the hip joint. We deliver lateral GING force simultaneously as we strike /deflect , pak sao, tan elbow, jum elbow, Bong sao = <sharp energy> left or right relative to the joan sien [centerline] so we have to have a good hip base with knees inwards and hips stabilized.
Also in chi-sao striking drilling , each partner is aligning intensive pressure of strikes in rotation, tan strike elbow force >versus< jum strike elbow force, each arm creating an invisible plane of equilibrium, as this happens the hips are fighting to stay forwards constantly in a battle of stability with the partner, not sparring yet 
just preparing the structure delivering the arms.
Each partner is deliberately placing the other in an exchange of force. The hips need to stay forwards to allow the legs to drive them forwards , ie not try to lean forwards to compensate…
We move from this equilateral stance into testing structures in motion, seung ma toi ma , seung ma toi ma with angling, etc…then drills with no pre-contact to simulate the angles adopted in chi-sao but using the developed strong stances in motion with striking and parrying in tactical lines of engagement randomly, furthering into free sparring.
Many ime don’t do this form of chi-sao and usually do the steering wheel wristing hand chase bs thing that doesn’t translate to the aforementioned drilling ideas. WHY ?
because they don’t encompass striking and alignment with structured force to back them up. they go into ‘statue blocking’ and turning stances to ‘re-direct’ force with whole body instead of more efficient strikes with dual deflecting ability.
Its not a fighting stance, just a neutral training stance to move from, as posted above the triangulation helps students to focus their lines.
even in chum kil the leading foot is turned slightly inwards for this thinking, stability. The SLT ygkym conditions this .
[QUOTE=trubblman;1098395]It’s clearly not a fighting stance despite what some practitioners of a certain lineage assert. . .[/QUOTE]
As a TWC Sifu I will agree that it’s not a fighting stance. 
Here is what Chu Shong Tin thinks of SLT; I think he says it best and most authoritatively:
http://www.tstvingtsun.bc.ca/HiddenPowerOfSNT_remix.html
[QUOTE=trubblman;1098405]Here is what Chu Shong Tin thinks of SLT; I think he says it best and most authoritatively:
http://www.tstvingtsun.bc.ca/HiddenPowerOfSNT_remix.html[/QUOTE]
His view, isnt everyones…the ‘arc’ of the arms he uses to make beachball arm rolling chi-sao :o even my old sifu said you cant touch him becasue he rolls like a balloon and he …[SIZE=“1”]doesnt fight[/SIZE] 
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1098413]His view, isnt everyones…the ‘arc’ of the arms he uses to make beachball arm rolling chi-sao :o even my old sifu said you cant touch him becasue he rolls like a balloon and he …[SIZE=“1”]doesnt fight[/SIZE] ;)[/QUOTE]
I think you went off on a tangent. The thread is about YGKYM stance - what is it’s purpose, not chi sao. People answered the first part of his question, that is not for fighting. The second is if not for fighting then why do it? That’s why I quoted the article.
I have heard things about the stance dealing with Chi cultivation but have little to no knowledge in Chi Gung like exercises. When we do Siu Lim Tau our toes point forward legs are about shoulder width apart knees slightly bent. My Sifu would at times make us go through the form extremely slow until your legs would burn.
This is exactly what im talking about. This seems to much but like this depiction I have seen people doing this I mean really leaning. To me it looks like someone could push you right over. I have also seen people shifting into a side stance leaning heavily on one side.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=…:0&tx=67&ty=46
A Side Stance like this to me seems like limiting your ability to move from side to side quickly. Am I wrong here? I keep a 50/50 weight distribution this seems like your leaning on one leg. To me pinning you down making it slow to change directions. Even the Front Stance I have seen usually has leaning on the back leg.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_syir5ZkTizI/SqKcQNU9NLI/AAAAAAAAAHM/nDqtVRLVA20/s400/Stance+%26+Forwork+2.jpg
Other than the hand position this is what I am most used to if his lead foot was turned in a bit more about 45 degrees.
http://www.theonetwopunch.com/images/fittip1199.jpg
Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma
Character 2 clamping (the) goat, stance
Yee Jee - Character two (number 2)
Kim - clamping/squeezing
Yeung - Goat
Mah - Horse (stance)
We train the stance using the character two as in the second column second row. Many use the pigeon toed stance like the character 8 as in the third column sixth row.
[QUOTE=trubblman;1098414]I think you went off on a tangent. The thread is about YGKYM stance - what is it’s purpose, not chi sao. People answered the first part of his question, that is not for fighting. The second is if not for fighting then why do it? That’s why I quoted the article.[/QUOTE]
that why I deleted it…
In my opinion, “Yeung” as in “Yang” and not “goat”. So the stance trains the “squeezing” of yang power, which resides within the entire pelvic apparatus.
The “Yee Jee” is the number two character, the “Uneven lines” as the power and the whole framework is asymmetric everywhere.
It is a training stance, not fighting stance.
For fighting I use the stance from Baat Jaam Dou.
I was actually taught an application w/ YJKYM! :eek:
Basically, it’s a goat-clamping stance - and the goat in question is the opponent’s lead leg. If your opponent steps between your legs and attempts a throw, trip or push, just clamp down on their leg (thigh area.) Continue your assault as able.
I do not train this, it’s just something I’ve been shown. It’s definitely not something to “seek out”, imo, or even teach as a goal; to deliberately try to pull it off is asking for trouble.
Still, I thought it was a neat little adaptation.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1098439]In my opinion, “Yeung” as in “Yang” and not “goat”. So the stance trains the “squeezing” of yang power, which resides within the entire pelvic apparatus.
The “Yee Jee” is the number two character, the “Uneven lines” as the power and the whole framework is asymmetric everywhere.
It is a training stance, not fighting stance.
For fighting I use the stance from Baat Jaam Dou.[/QUOTE]
Your opinion is fine with me but the character used IS goat and not the character for Yang. Romanizations can be complicated for some Westerners. It’s easy enough to research the Chinese character on the web.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1098439]In my opinion, “Yeung” as in “Yang” and not “goat”. So the stance trains the “squeezing” of yang power, which resides within the entire pelvic apparatus.
The “Yee Jee” is the number two character, the “Uneven lines” as the power and the whole framework is asymmetric everywhere.
It is a training stance, not fighting stance.
For fighting I use the stance from Baat Jaam Dou.[/QUOTE]
Yeung - Goat (used in the WC stance) In Yip Man WC. Not sure about other lineages.
Yang - as in the Taoist belief
I just found out that some lineages use Yang and not Yeung (goat) so I stand a corrected. :o
Phil, it’s entirely possible that it was originally meant to be , but without much written translation early on it could have been recorded as . Similar to the differing opinions regarding and .
Of course, this is just a thought.
EDIT: Disregard this post, as we must have been writing at the same time.
[QUOTE=Runlikehell;1098449]Phil, it’s entirely possible that it was originally meant to be , but without much written translation early on it could have been recorded as . Similar to the differing opinions regarding and .
Of course, this is just a thought.
EDIT: Disregard this post, as we must have been writing at the same time.[/QUOTE]
imperialtaichi is Kulo lineage. They use Yang. Kulo is older then YMWC so Yang could be correct.
