"All of us should understand that martial arts training today is no longer useful for war.The changes for using it in self-defense have also been reduced to minimum compared to that of ancient times.This is an art whose knowledge has taken the Chinese thousands of years to accumulate.What remains for us to learn is the spirit of the arts. -Dr.Yang Jwing Ming “Shaolin White Crane”
Maybe they don’t have so many drunken p!ssheads in China.
I agree…nevertheless, if martial arts will never be used on modern battlefields like they used to be on old ones, I do believe that trained correctly they can very well save your azz in a street battlefield 
My sifu survived Vietnam war thanks to his devoted martial art training. Just so u know… :rolleyes:
So did I, but in theory I still agree with Master Dr. Yang.
I´m not sure what you guys mean by surviving Vietnam war with martial art training,it would be hard to dodge bullets anyway.
He was behind enemy lines a number of times. he had to take out posts without drawing much attention on his men. This is why we train so much with knife in my school.
It is not only the martial arts, but to be able to take preassure and be calm. Something a good martial artist have/get.
THAT, and the fact that he was really ..how do u say… fit. 
without martial art training your just an average Joe with a gun, dont u agree that martial arts will give u an small advantage?
Contrary to the movies and legends I don’t believe most martial arts that supposedly were used on the battlefield ever were used there.
i concour
Originally posted by rogue
Contrary to the movies and legends I don’t believe most martial arts that supposedly were used on the battlefield ever were used there.
Yes and no, IMO. I think most likely empty hand techniques were very rarely used on a battlefield, so in that sense I agree with Rogue that a lot of the stuff that comprises modern kung fu probably did not see a great deal of battlefield use.
But, I think it’s a bit different when it comes to weapons in kung fu. From what I’ve seen, even styles as different as Northern Shaolin and Taiji use a lot of the same sword techniques. The nature of the weapon dictates the effective techniques—there’s only so many ways to use it effectively. Just from my study of Taiji saber, I would have to think that most of the basic techniques are not vastly different from what would have been used on the battlefield–there just aren’t that many other options.
I agree, I think that weapons were way more important in combat than empty hand training. You would have your army go into battle with only their hands against spears and stuff would you? If they didn’t have weapons it would make more sense that they would improvise with farm tools or somthing like in Kobudo
i think dr. ming (is that his family name?) brings up a good point. yes, i’m sure that sabres were used in warfare. and kama were used in battles. and so on. but did it look anything like what it’s become today? do we have any real way of knowing how many layers of abstraction the art has undergone? is it really the same experience today? even in a real streetfight or self defense situation, i doubt the experience is the same as a war. the objective won’t generally be to kill you (as opposed to humiliate you, take your wallet, etc.). nor will the assailant be a trained soldier.
i don’t think he’s suggesting that conditions today are less dire. only that the art doesn’t precisely mirror the application. while sabre training may well have once mirrored actual sabre use, sabre training today 1) may not reflect that same reality and 2) bears less relevance on the environment today (i.e., legislation on carrying SWORDS, prominence of firearms, etc.)
the spirit of the thing is to overcome adversity, test and extend your own limits, face what you fear, and so on. and those things are as relevant today as they ever were, even if the specific maneuvers may not be.
stuart b.
“ the spirit of the arts”
I think many have missed the real point of what he was addressing.
A mirror only reflects whats shown, if you can clear your mind like a window, you may start to see the world.
new year soon,
good beginings all
none of you will ever know
quote:
Originally posted by rogue
Contrary to the movies and legends I don’t believe most martial arts that supposedly were used on the battlefield ever were used there.
None of you will ever know, cause none of you were ever there.
NafAnal can concur and anyone else can 2nd the motion, but it is pointless.
Movies are for entertainment, and to a lesser extent, education,
depending on the genre, and the audience it is trying to reach.
Legends are alleged to have some kind of basis in fact, so everything you pile up on that is pure speculation.
Considering that most armies fielded way back when were not professional I doubt that many of the soldiers had much training in their weapon much less a system of hand to hand combat.
“without martial art training your just an average Joe with a gun”
…umm…u don’t know what dey do in the military do u?
"
…umm…u don’t know what dey do in the military do u?"
yeah they run around and scream alot. Nothing I saw from your Rangers training impressed me in any ways. But that’s another story. Oh and your supposed MA training… :rolleyes: what a joke my friend, sorry but if it came to that one of your Rangers had to fight someone empty handed on the battlefield, their “ma” skills from ranger training would do ****. Sorry for busting your diluted little bubble.
On the subject:
It IS documented that martial Arts HAVE and BEEN used in emergency in a modern day war. For example: In the World War 2, soldiers who encontered the Japanese soldiers and had to fight them witout guns reported that the japanese broke necks, joints, dislocated bones and killed allies with their BARE HANDS. If you have not read this, I am surprised. Then what the **** do u call that?
The japanese soldiers were trained in some martial art (probebly Jiu Jitsu) and it was used on the battlefield. I dont think anyone can argue against that, becouse it is well documented and not a speculation. It is FACT.
Regardless of fighting skill, what you overlooked, Kristoffer, was mindset. Whether or not a SEAL can fight is almost irelevant. If they are hellbent on destroying you , they will. A quote from the movie “Ali” comes to my mind…
“A smashed nose, a black eye, a busted jaw - are you ready for that? If not, then sit down, because you are fighting someone that will DIE before letting you win”
Also, I don’t think anyone is saying that MA hasn’t been used on a battlefield. Rogue’s post was that out of all of the ones that claim to have been battlefield tested most probably were not.
Fairburn techniques?