[QUOTE=nasmedicine;1119337]LOL, right to the point![/QUOTE]
Sad really, all that time invested, for what, blocking ?
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1119340]Dude, what up with the cheezy music and PB pushing people over benches? What next? 3 Stooges version where one guy goes on all fours behind another and another "pak sau"s him over him?[/QUOTE]
Stick to the subject. Sorry if we dont amuse you, try ignoring. Your getting tedious.
You dont even train VT. TROLL.
The Pak Sau in the video doesn’t work because he’s chasing hands, not chasing Centre Of Mass.
So what do you guys think is the difference between a WC pak sao and a parry in boxing (or how another style uses pak sao).
This is a good example that it’s better to rotate the body to block a punch (body connected) instead of just move the arm without moving the body (body disconnedted).
Many years ago, the 7 star prey mantis master Brendan Lai challenged me in speed. He said that he could strike my back shoulder and I could not even use my leading arm to block it.
- We both started with right side forward with both arms down.
- His right leading hand striked at my left back shoulder.
- I rotated my body to my left.
- My right forearm blocked his right arm.
Brendan had tried 3 times and I had intersected all 3 of his punches.
Instead of trying to use my hand to intersect his punch, I moved my left shoulder out of his striking path. Whether my right hand could intersect his punch or not is no longer important at that moment.
I definitely agree that
1 - he’s ‘passive’ chasing
2 - he’s not using his whole body
3 - most importantly, he’s not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you’re connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work…
[QUOTE=WC1277;1119250]What do you guys think? Why doesn’t the pak sau work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0OMkvvz3k&feature=channel_video_title[/QUOTE]
Because he has no structure. His elbows are not supported by the alignment of the rest of his body, so he is trying to affect the center of gravity of his opponent with the strength of his arm alone.
[QUOTE=WC1277;1119384]
3 - most importantly, he’s not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you’re connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work…[/QUOTE]
I was going to post Pak Sau IMO should be played destructive. This one was a literal slapping hand. I think your #3 may be a little more lucid than my answer.
[QUOTE=WC1277;1119384]I definitely agree that
1 - he’s ‘passive’ chasing
2 - he’s not using his whole body
3 - most importantly, he’s not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you’re connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work…[/QUOTE]
By virtue of what you were showing which was drilling slowly and then full speed. The core issue appears to be reaction time. Your student knows how to do the movement, he just can’t execute it at full speed.
All of these suggestions about structure and basic execution are missing the point.
Just to clarify in case there was confusion. This is NOT me nor my video. Something I found that thought would make good conversation.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1119364]This is a good example that it’s better to rotate the body to block a punch (body connected) instead of just move the arm without moving the body (body disconnedted).
Many years ago, the 7 star prey mantis master Brendan Lai challenged me in speed. He said that he could strike my back shoulder and I could not even use my leading arm to block it.
- We both started with right side forward with both arms down.
- His right leading hand striked at my left back shoulder.
- I rotated my body to my left.
- My right forearm blocked his right arm.
Brendan had tried 3 times and I had intersected all 3 of his punches.
Instead of trying to use my hand to intersect his punch, I moved my left shoulder out of his striking path. Whether my right hand could intersect his punch or not is no longer important at that moment.[/QUOTE]
was this a challenge? you gave him no face haha.
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1119419]was this a challenge? you gave him no face haha.[/QUOTE]
The late sifu Lai wasa good man. I used to buy CMA supplies from him.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1119419]was this a challenge? you gave him no face haha.[/QUOTE]
It was not a true challenge. Brendan was my quest. Since Adam Hsu was also there, I had to try my best. If Brendan’s hand could hit my back shoulder, his hand could hit my head too.
What block, technique, parry, etc., would work against a stationary target that is a beat behind an attack? Unless the video had another point it proves nothing. I know for sure that a pak can work in street fights and in competition.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1119433]What block, technique, parry, etc., would work against a stationary target that is a beat behind an attack? Unless the video had another point it proves nothing. I know for sure that a pak can work in street fights and in competition.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If you watch a lot of video demos carefully you see this mistake being made all the time. The attacker usually begins his attack before the defender. Most times it is imperceptible because the attacker is moving his feet or body before his hands. The defender is usually standing still. This is why the attacks always work. I call this the crash test dummy idea. As long as you have passive, stationary defender most techniques will get by a defense.
In the video the demonstrator should have had the defender stepping side to side or moving back and forth before he launched his attack. The defender would have had more advantage. I think a different convo would have been elicited on the board.
Having said that, all I have is the demo in front of me. The way I think I would have defended is not to wait for the attacker’s punch. I would have tried to punch first, used a tan sao, or fuk sao, body dodge or head fake, rather than pak sao.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1119364]Instead of trying to use my hand to intersect his punch, I moved my left shoulder out of his striking path. Whether my right hand could intersect his punch or not is no longer important at that moment.[/QUOTE]
Another good thing about turning your facing like this is that when you do now you have structure - your elbow is aligned correctly with the rest of your body giving support to the pak and allows you to pak thru the opponents center.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1119433]What block, technique, parry, etc., would work against a stationary target that is a beat behind an attack? Unless the video had another point it proves nothing. I know for sure that a pak can work in street fights and in competition.[/QUOTE]
I think that the solution that this teacher intends to get at is that it is necessary to stand at the correct fighting measure/distance. People stand stationary, doing drilling and forms slowly at first. It seems to me the first time that you start them on developing real-time maneuvers they stand to close where things like a pak are less effective just like the video. I think that it happens a lot.
So what do you guys think is the difference between a WC pak sao and a parry in boxing (or how another style uses pak sao).
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1119525]So what do you guys think is the difference between a WC pak sao and a parry in boxing (or how another style uses pak sao).[/QUOTE]
As a generalization the boxing parry is close to the body and just aids with a slip. the pak is a bit longer range and pushes the opponent’s strike off the centerline. WC guys will also use the pak like a wind shield wiper to catch lead straights which is something that boxers will sometimes do if they don’t catch it.
Now having said that, nothing really. Good WC men use it like a boxer at times, and good boxers use it like a WC man a lot too. At low levels you see some more distinction. At high levels not so much.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1119529]As a generalization the boxing parry is close to the body and just aids with a slip. the pak is a bit longer range and pushes the opponent’s strike off the centerline. WC guys will also use the pak like a wind shield wiper to catch lead straights which is something that boxers will sometimes do if they don’t catch it.
Now having said that, nothing really. Good WC men use it like a boxer at times, and good boxers use it like a WC man a lot too. At low levels you see some more distinction. At high levels not so much.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your input.