Wing Chun treasure

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
21

re: gnugear

yep. nothing to get your irish up with, though.

what i’m saying is, even if you have a ‘killer move’ (it was a good move) and a set of good strategies, there’s always someone who’ll take you down.

in ken’s case, he’s open enough to freely admit it- and to have used it to improve his WC, what’s more. if he had an attitude of ‘this is IT, there’s nothing better’, he wouldn’t be ken chung. thats an example for us: think for yourself, test everything, nothing is gospel.

maybe the kuen kuit would read: ‘butt done think two’. so we’d be arguing over it’s meaning for decades…:wink:

22

{i^( - I have heard the story, a good one. For the record, Carl has always said Ken is way ahead of him in his understanding and knowledge. There is always someone better and that is part of my point, why settle for mediocre, and have alot of people better then you, when you can seek out the best and have maybe a small minority better then you?

Mithrandir - the question is not what is “real” but what is good?

B&B - of course not everything is laced with hidden meaning, from what I understand the small sign and its meaning werent “hidden” so much as just hard to find. As for some of the guys calling me troll, well its label overused and misunderstood apparently, although renee has finally switched to spamming instead of trolling :wink:
However I have made this point and I will make it again,just because you study something for 20 years doesnt mean you really get it. time is not always a factor…

LOL!@KFC!

Anerlich, what I find most ironic is that with every thread you say has become redundant or overstated or overused, I get plenty of post from you… :wink: Shouldnt you be filling those gaps right now?

23

Re: re: gnugear

Originally posted by {i^(
yep. nothing to get your irish up with, though.

No, not at all:)

That’s a great example of being able to check your ego at the door.
It certainly appears that his Wing Chun changed for the better!

24

Hey Red,

>Mithrandir - the question is not what is “real” but what is good?

Then why do you make statements like;

>How many people are out there right now honestly searching for real WING CHUN?

You also never answered my question…do you have in your opinion the ability to deliver “real WC” or “good WC”?

While you are at it perhaps you can give specific definitions of what “good WC” is?

25

That’s a great example of being able to check your ego at the door. It certainly appears that his Wing Chun changed for the better!

And yet, after all that refinement, he still doesn’t chase people around the Net, presuming to fix their broken Wing Chun. Unlike his great-grandson. :rolleyes:

26

I love you guys! :wink:

Mithrandir, my bad, real and good to me are pretty much interchangeable, often though some people look at “real” as being something like “Yip Mans” wingchun or lineage oriented, I do not however. As for what I think good wingchun is, we can talk about it all day, as a matter of fact you can go to several of my other threads to see what I mean, but in the end, unless we can touch hands, talking about it doesnt get us very far.

27

Are you that impressed with yourself?

Red,

>Regardless of who I am or what my “ulterior” motives are >supposed to be, the points are still valid and still good.

Says who? Yourself—and you are who in the Wing Chun community? Just what is it exactly that you have accomplished within the Wing Chun community?

>Instead of calling me troll, or smack talking maybe you should >be asking yourself why it bothers you that I post what I post?

How about because after 8 months or “real wing chun” you have demonstrated an amazing disregard for the seniors of your’s and other lineages. You seem to enjoy talking down to those whose opinion differs from your own. It is obvious to some on this forum that your possess not only tremendous gaps in your knowledge of Wing Chun, but also in your reasoning skills and ability to process logic. Your blatant disrespect for others is mezmerizing when viewed in its totality. I can honestly say that I believe interaction with you to be not only a waste of time and effort–but I have found it leaves one with an unwholesome feeling. I would think that at your early stage of development in WC you would be better served if you cultivated your listening skills and put your pursuit of skills in the realm of oration for another day.

FYI, if I was you I would avoid seeking a future in a political office, somehow I don’t think it would turn out good for you. In fact, maybe you should avoid public speaking for a few years–you don’t appear to possess the skill sets that are requisite for the undertaking of such a venture.

Hope this helps the ignorance of your situation

28

Delayed reaction

Mithrandir - thanks for the “help” but let me clarify a few things first. First of all, there are a few (notice the word few) people on this forum that seem to be actually serious about wing chun (before you even think it, most of them are some of my biggest detractors). Like the rest of the wing chun community there is probably a pretty good cross section of people here who are “hobbyist” for whatever that means, but even more amusing is the fact that they can hide behind the facade of the internet and pretend to know much more then they do. I get accused of this all the time, but in time we shall who is growing and who is understanding.
My “crusade” as so labeled by members of this forum, is nothing but to seperate the crap the pervades the wingchun world out there, yes I use the word crap and I will use it again and again because there is a lot of it out there. This doesnt preclude the idea that some wingchun out there is good, but that the majority is not. this also doesnt mean that you may not be practicing good wingchun, BUT, one of my points that I make is that most people have no idea of the difference between good and bad because it almost all looks the same. Look at some of the conversations you get on here, most of it is miniscule differences in detail and not really the meat of wingchun.
You wanna know why I think people get upset here Mithrandir? The really honest reason? I think that most of the guys who get the most upset have no idea what they are really talking about, or doing but on the internet that doesnt show. there is a lot of talk and all you have to do is pat a few backs and say hmmm thats interesting, not the way I do it but still, thats ok. Meanwhile back in front of the keyboard everyone is sneering or huffing or double talking.
If you have something good to say, great, if you have something bad to say you wont see me blowing sunshine up your butt, but you also wont see me “attacking” you either. I may disagree with you but get over it, I do. If I didnt do you think I would still be here?
Something commonly said here is that you have to wade through the crap to get to the real jewels and that is absolutely true. I have met some really cool people, some of them who I disagree with but we still get along without kissing each others backsides. If getting along means wingchun gets watered down and becomes thin and weak, I am not interested in it. the guy sin Hong Kong fought for alot of reasons, some being ego, some to prove thier art worked, some to refine it, and some to see what else was out there and how thier stuff held up. They may have shook hands afterwards but they were out there testing it. now a days you get cute little “full contact” tournemants or chi sau tournemants where people cant decide exactly what they should be looking for.
I say what I say because look around you and open your eyes. Look at Karate, look at TKD, look at your local Taichi for touching your inner spirit type schools. It all gets watered down because people stop looking and challenging themselves. their lazy, their ignorant, their unknowing or unwitting, whatever the excuse they dont do the foot work and they dont TRY.
I bring up Carl Dechiara all the time, why? Because the guy is a true pioneer in the Wing chun World. He has busted his azz to get where he is, day in and day out his love for the art has driven him to get better and better, no slowing down, no half assing it. he is the real deal when it comes to martial arts. There are others out there, sure, but this is wingchun and it is what he teaches. If there were more people like him out there, and a few of his students, or his instructor Ken Chung (and there are even fewer men like Ken) then Wing Chun would be at the top of the heap instead of something some BJJ guy wants to learn some techniques from.
You take what I say how you want to but take a deep and honest loo at the art and what is happening to it. If you can walk away afte rthat and be content then go along your merry little way and dont worry about me, because I am not worried about you. But if this concerns you so much, if the things I say get you so upset then take another look at why. this is an internet forum, does what I say really bother you so much? does it really matter to you what some internet “nut” says on this forum?

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upset? who me? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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30

Red has shown us the light once again!!..Man he’s going to be famous!!!

I will sit back while he saves the WC world (what a guy!!)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

31

I say what I say because look around you and open your eyes. Look at Karate, look at TKD, look at your local Taichi for touching your inner spirit type schools. It all gets watered down because people stop looking and challenging themselves. their lazy, their ignorant, their unknowing or unwitting, whatever the excuse they dont do the foot work and they dont TRY.
Are you trying to insult me R5A?:smiley:

Because the guy is a true pioneer in the Wing chun World.
OK my friend I’m going to call you on this one, what has Carl pioneered?

32

Sorry to say this, and to have to repeat what many have said to you, but your rude overgeneralisations are insulting to many, many high quality schools and teachers.

You have seen a tiny, tiny sample of the WC in the world. The USA is by no means the be-all and end-all of WC. There are fine practioners, but there are fine practioners all over the world. What about Europe, Canada, Australasia, China and Hong Kong?

When called out on this, you assume that those who are questioning your tone are worried that theirs is the bad WC to which you refer. This is not true. The point is, when you say ‘most’, then you are lumping everyone together, based on a tiny sample size.

Only when you have seen ALL of the WC in the world, are you qualified to say MOST. Until then, you can say SOME.

So am I worried that I am being taught bad WC? No. My instructor is a direct student of Wong Shun Leung (heard of him?), personally authorised to teach his method here in the UK, and has been practicing for 32 years.

David Peterson from Melbourne, who sometimes posts here, has probably had more contact with WSL than anyone and has been practicing for a frighteningly long period of time. vingtsunstudent is a student of Barry Lee, referred to by WSL as the ‘machine’ due to his unstoppability in fighting. These are all excellent, highly respected teachers, and just from my particular lineage.

The point is, although many of us know that our teachers and way of doing things are worthwhile, and the ‘best we have found’, we dont keep bloody harping on about it.

33

Was Wong Shun Leung Yip Man’s cook?

34

R%A-who else-sez:Because the guy is a true pioneer in the Wing chun World’

Wow-glory be, the tent revival and carnival is here-pity the poor laggards.

Frankexchange- well known problem in observation- is not just what is observed- but the observer-in this case the pioneer of new methods of survey research in Minneapolis who spams
and pollutes away during long down time at work.

35

Re: Delayed reaction

Originally posted by red5angel
their ignorant
Just 2 words, but so ironic :slight_smile:

36

Yenhoi

>> Was Wong Shun Leung Yip Man’s cook? <<

Err, no.

37

‘Was Wong Shun Leung Yip Man’s cook?’

he may have been, but i think what many might not know is that besides that he was apparently not bad at the fighting side of things as well. infact i’ve even heard rumour that he was quite good, which i personally think is better than not bad.
have you ever had to fight to handle one of those huge woks when cooking a large meal?
if you have then i’m sure all of that just made more sense to you than it did me.
honestly, where do some people come up with these things?:rolleyes:
vts

38

Rogue - yes my friend :wink: :smiley: Actually I did Karate, at a very good school for a couple of years. It wasnt for me but anyone who is serious about Karate I will always point in their direction!As for pioneering, well, he has taken some of the best knowledge from one o fthe best WC people around and refined that. Talking to a fellow classmate yesterday we were looking back at the lineage itself, Yip Man- Leung sheung - Ken Chung - Carl Dechiara, and we came to the conclusion that they havent so much changed things as really refined the things passed down from the last generation. Since I dont know Ken himself I can only comment on Carls stuff and I kow that Carl spent alot of time and hard work figuring out how to make it more accessible, and easier to learn for people who come after him. Of course others have done this as well but I havent seen it done to such an extent. He has stayed true to the intents and principals of wingchun where others have allowed their ego to lead them astray. I am sure alot of this also has to do with the fact that he has really appreciated what Ken has done with wing chun as well.
As for me, I may not posess all of the wonderful knowledge some of you guys on wing chun, but I will! For now I am happy with the basics, the foundations of wing chun. Who knows, when I get out a little and start touching hands with some of you guys I may learn some things form you as well!

39

Wong Shun Leung was indeed Yip Man’s cook, his video “The Science of In Fighting” proved an invaluable source of culinary knowledge when I first left home at the age of 63. Nurse…nurse…I need more medication nowwwwwwww…