try throwing a straight kick instead of a 3 beat entry…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;866017]try throwing a straight kick instead of a 3 beat entry…[/QUOTE]
That would work. But your balance may not be “right” for a kick at that moment. He may be expecting a kick and you don’t want a counter to throw you off balance. Or he may just be one tough SOB that could just shrug off all but the best of kicks! The kick will not control on the way in as well as the hands.
control the better by attacking ..let him worry about how good your kick is 
Ive used low front kicks in fights , with positive results . The line of the heel to target is as a straight one.
Using the inch punch source of force [ the heel] we time the contact of the kick to coincide with the support heel driving into the ground . Creating the equal and opposite force to enter the opponent…whatever you can generate as a max out he receives in the kick to be followed by further [ if required ] attacks.
being off balance is as hypothetical as all the other scenarios, old school balance traing we did was to stand on one leg for 3 minutes in a chambered kick position knees up by the hand leading in by jong .
Then standing on one leg while chasing anothert partner on one leg as well trying to push them over with the leg being held up [ not fullforce kicking but more to push them over and chase them if they started to fall…] while holding the arms in the basic drawn position…stamina and balance come …1st one to have to put their foot down is the one who needs more practice …
Keeping in the vertical axis line we fight from while moving will help balance issues. Chum Kil forms are to develop these ideas of movement without losing the balance axis line as we attack and chase the opponents.
Maybe 's and ifs can be dealt with in training, in the fight dont think and try to walk up his arm in a 3 beat counter unless he’s asleep then do it to not wake him up 
until its too LATE ! :D:D
the three-beat can be used against a jab because the jab does not stay out there, but retracts(if he’s actually trying to throw a punch and not posing)youfollow it home, and trap the elbow,arm. No, it’s not foolproof, nothing is, and you can get into a bad habit of slap-boxing if youare not intelligent in your training. But I see your point. Many roads…
KPM-you may want to also look into Sayoc Kali. Their blade work is very fluid, and runs (Jow-sao) the way some WCK and SPM schools do. Food for thought.
Just don’t develop the dabbler’s mentality, taking a few drills and thinking,
“I know it.”
Good post, “stay with what comes and follow what goes”…
Ali Rahim.
Kieth,
From what I experienced it was not 3 count replacing hands but 3 in one action. Similar to a Jik Chui straight punch cleave and hit one action and center attack. Either inward or outward. You are contacting, controlling and stirking one action. This can be done with one hand, or one hand control and the other hit, or etc..
Kevin said:
Maybe 's and ifs can be dealt with in training, in the fight dont think and try to walk up his arm in a 3 beat counter unless he’s asleep then do it to not wake him up until its too LATE !
—When I say “3 count”, don’t think of a plodding 1…2…3. This happens VERY fast. Its not so much 3 actual “counts”, but it is 3 movements rolled up into one. It has a very “flowing” quality. Again, think of it as bridging from further out and controlling all the way in.
Jim said:
From what I experienced it was not 3 count replacing hands but 3 in one action. Similar to a Jik Chui straight punch cleave and hit one action and center attack. Either inward or outward. You are contacting, controlling and stirking one action.
—The 3 “count” can happen so quickly that the actions blend together.
TT said:
Just don’t develop the dabbler’s mentality, taking a few drills and thinking,
“I know it.”
—Good advice! But like I said before, this is not a “hodge-podge” JKD project. This is a fully integrated approach I’m working on.
Yueng Fooks Wing Chun has Southern Mantis mixed in it .
Hi Robert,
any word about the Yeung Fook CD as yet?
Jo, I am sorry I took so long to respond. The Mantis I was using as a reference would be called 7 star I do believe. I also think it is a Northern style of Mantis? I was living in New Orleans in the very late 60’s. I visited a friend that had a kwoon in the back of his large house. It was a community of Asians, mostly Chinese. My friend asked me to attend a meeting or training session and maybe even give his class a demonstration of my skills of Wing Chun. Actually, his father invited me, and he was wanting me to teach his younger son. That is another story.
That is the only time I was ever really exposed to this system of fighting, and I was not really liking it much. They had a big horse. I cannot spread my stance that wide without causing pain in my hips and I lose a great deal of mobility. Also, the hand techniques were telegraphed. They had too much distance to cover and the blocks were just that. Blocks. And they were not conducive to simultanious defend and attack.
This was just my own impression of 7 star mantis. I am biased of course, and because I am a long time practitioner of Wing Chun gung fu I feel I will naturally find fault. At least I am honest about that. Another thing I seem to remember was that they did a great deal of kicking. I would never attempt a high kick in a real fight. But these kids were applying kicks that were head high to me. During a short demonstration of Wing Chun I used the fact that they were standing on one leg and rolled them all over the place. Admitted, these were not highly advanced students of gung fu, but they were not your average kid on the street either.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;866265]Jo, I am sorry I took so long to respond. The Mantis I was using as a reference would be called 7 star I do believe. I also think it is a Northern style of Mantis? .[/QUOTE]
Ah! Yes it is! And Northern Mantis is very different than Southern Mantis!
I thought I would mention another aspect of “Wing Chun Mantis.” This aspect is a heavier use of the Phoenix Eye fist than is seen in most other Wing Chun methods. Most Wing Chun will target the torso when punching. I know when I was learning Yip Man WCK I was taught to punch towards the other guy’s sternum. I took lots of hits there during Chi Sao as well! :o But striking the chest with the typical flat fist doesn’t accomplish a whole lot. Sure, you may rock your opponent a little bit, but unless his root is non-existant you aren’t going to slow him down much. But make that same strike with a Phoenix Eye Fist and now you’ve got his attention! :eek: The idea is to get that “oh s…t” flinch reflex that makes him roll his shoulders forward and makes his arms go weak for just a second. Now you can close and control more effectively and meet with less resistance. Another benefit of the Phoenix Eye Fist is when using it as a “cutting” punch. Since the fist is angled downward a bit upon impact, when striking across the top of the opponent’s own punch or guard it is very effective at taking the line and still impacting for maximum effect. Likewise, when striking from beneath the opponent’s punch, that downward angling of the fist on impact actually lifts the forearm and more effectively deflects his punch as you hit him. So a big use of the Phoenix Eye Fist in Wing Chun Mantis is when closing with an opponent to either deflect his punch or collapse his guard while striking him solidly in the torso to get that “flinch” that effectively “turns off” his ability to further respond for that split second that it takes for you to continue closing and either land a more definitive blow or tie him up. Even if you have already closed and are briefly exchanging, the Phoenix Eye Fist delivered to his chest at close range with “inch power” is often enough to let you gain the advantage. When using a tactical folder in a forward grip, the Phoenix Eye Fist strike is essentially a straight thrust.
COOL i CHECKED THIS AFTER THE OTHER TOPIC.
When in china I found that many of the people did this in chi sao. From the Fuk sao position they would slide over your tan and hit you with it. At first I was trying to just extend the tan sao to stop it but due to there being no real elbow it wouldnt work. I found that I had to pivot towards the punch to get any real control of it or use a reverse tan (the move in CK with both hands in the first section after the pivots, I suck at the real names). Between that and the back fist it seemed like that was their best moves as they tended to do it heaps.
just control the wrist no need to turn or a just the hand