[QUOTE=Liddel;907954]
Im surprised there is no mention of VT kicks in this thread yet, 90 of my kicks are used as destructive knee/ leg stomps…they can stop a guy cold irrespective of size IME.
I would add also that it depends on the level of destruction one is talking about here, im not a big believer in actions being able to break limbs but to deaden
and/or hyperextend perhaps…(specifically the Tok Sau mentioned)
[/QUOTE]
Good point on kicks.
I think the easiest limb destructions are stuff like kneeing them in the thigh. It doesn’t rely on catching a movement.
There are slightly harder ones that do catch a movement in MT. Downward double elbow strikes vs round kicks: If you can spot the kick coming at your midsection, it’s only a slight downward movement of your guard. If you’re late and the kick lands, at least you counterattacked a bit by elbowing their leg anyway.
Catching the round kick and kicking their supporting leg is a common one also.
For attacking the opponent’s arms, the dummy forms of YKS and PN have some techniques which are strikes to the limbs: Generally you’re grabbing at wrist level with one hand as you’re striking with the forearm or elbow further up the arm.
You want to use the solid bony parts of your arm to hit the softer parts of the opponent’s arm.
In sparring, it doesn’t destroy as in break anyone’s arm, but it slows you down and gives you a sore arm. In instances where you’re too far away to hit to the head/body, at least you can strike something and inflict a little pain.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;907940]+1000… spot on. Interesting in theory, but rarely applicable in reality.
Take away the edged or blunt weapon and he is going to be pounding your head and body while you are trying to “destruct” his limbs.[/QUOTE]
That truly becomes the issue that many people seem to forget because they get caught up on drills and “static” training.
The other guy keeps on hitting you, and hitting you and hitting you, he just doesn’t stand there with his arm out, he punches, kickes, tackles, elbows, knees, etc, etc.
Too m any times we get caught up on something the looks good on “paper”, something the looks good in a demo, but in a real altercation, street, ring or otherwise, they other guy is not only uncooperative, he is down right violent !
[QUOTE=Liddel;907954]Destruction is a severe word !
I agree, although -
Im surprised there is no mention of VT kicks in this thread yet, 90% of my kicks are used as destructive knee/ leg stomps…they can stop a guy cold irrespective of size IME.
I would add also that it depends on the level of destruction one is talking about here, im not a big believer in actions being able to break limbs but to deaden
and/or hyperextend perhaps…(specifically the Tok Sau mentioned)
The sharpness of inch power in blocking round punches has had good results for me in sparring - its not something that is going to stop a guy outright.
However IMO its the same effect as punching a guy in the same spot or kicking a leg throughout a round…the cumulative(sp?) effects make it harder for a guy etc he then must adjust his strategy… it can take power away and fatigue him to gain an edge.
Thats certainly not ‘destructive’ IMO though. Stomps are the only action i have i would put in that class.
DREW[/QUOTE]
I agree, low line limb destruction is a far better approach than upper line.
Your legs are less mobile, hard to defend and “easier” to damage.
That’s why I was asking Sihing what he meant by destructions. Most attempts at ‘blocking’ are a waste of time and will get you clocked. Covering, a strong counter punch from any angle, footwork and maintaining your structure go much further than trying to whack arms out of the air.
The word ‘destruction’ is melodramatic and inaccurate for the kind of effect you will get if you do catch an arm.
Incidentally, I’ve seen something very similar to the tok sao I have seen on knife defence demos (like Demi Barbito is it?)… still don’t fancy it much.
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;908063]IMO Sanjuro, Robert and JPinAz are right.
That’s why I was asking Sihing what he meant by destructions. Most attempts at ‘blocking’ are a waste of time and will get you clocked. Covering, a strong counter punch from any angle, footwork and maintaining your structure go much further than trying to whack arms out of the air.
The word ‘destruction’ is melodramatic and inaccurate for the kind of effect you will get if you do catch an arm.
Incidentally, I’ve seen something very similar to the tok sao I have seen on knife defence demos (like Demi Barbito is it?)… still don’t fancy it much.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say that most attempts at blocking get you clocked, I would say that defensive blocking gets you clocked while offensive blocking does what it is suppose to:
Block the attack at its beginning and puts you in the right place to do what you do best.
The tok sao one out of chum kiu should only be used when the elbow is locked. It shouldnt really matter which way the elbow is pointing. It is normally used when the person is bigger and has grabbed you and you arent able to reach for a punch. Means the feet can stay one the ground for stability instead of the normal "kick him in the shins’ approach. This is taught to everyone and shouldnt really depend on how good you are. Doing it in chi sao normally means you are trying to do it with punches so unless you are super quick you dont get the arm locked so it doesnt really work.
The key is to do the tok sao at 45 degrees upward which causes the shoulder to lock into position instead of pushing the arm up into space.
Thanks for explaining what tok sao means to your school Benny. It seems my teacher’s way was different.
I like that idea of using it on a grab, we did that too. The direction of the elbow is still important: play around with it and see. Unless you are saying that your tok is a principle rather than a technique? In which case I would expect some development of it and more repetition of it in the forms. In our school most of what we did was attributable to principles rather than techs, as in ‘if he does this, you do this’. My answer to the questions on this thread reflects that.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;908147]Don’t get tiffy with me mister !![/QUOTE]I don’t knwo what tiffy is, but if being it gets you to post pics like that, I’m down.
yeh I meant that the move can be used no matter were the elbow is ie if its pointing left you do it to the left. The idea is more of a pushing and yanking in two directions to get the same effect. the main thing is if the elbow isnt locked it wont work. There is also the same idea in the knives, except that they are for a sideways movement to displace or control the weapon.
But the attacking the attack can seem like a bit of a catch phrase. In the WSL system we tend to use it more as a way of explaining that if you control the head and the COG then you dont have to block the coming punch. As opposed to actually attacking the punch that is coming in. Its all about the range and the timing. Take a wide punch, if Im quick I can punch straight and beat the punch. then the variables happen. Say their arm is bigger, so you have to step forward to disrupt his stance and send the on coming punch up and away. If hes really big you may have to tan sao and punch. This would all be classed as attacking the attack as they all use offence to block. But some times if every thing is against you it may involve stepping back to let it pass you and then stepping in or other alternatives. Things are different depending on the situation. If you hurt the arms while hitting them in the head then cool. But when they are knocked-out no-one cares if their arms are sore.
Hey Sanjuro, does Miss Tiffy have a guard game? If so, I’d like to roll with her and test out Tony Cecchine’s ideas about lowering the hips, pressuring forward, and locking the guard players’ hips with yours in order to take their space away.
It takes away their opportunities to get a submission.
So the question now is, will SHE submit?
Wait, don’t answer that…just pm me her phone number and I’ll find out for myself.
