Monji, welcome to the forum. Bruce was a wuss, 7* would throw him down an elevator shaft and jump in after him. It was all done with smoke and mirrors by doubles, using the same technology used to fake the moon landing, but that’s besides the point…
B red
Spoken like a true consumer. The whole issue people have with lineage is that it is a crutch used by unqualified people to appear qualified. You will find that all the notorious frauds always have fancy lineage, whereas some of the best have it, but you won’t know about it, or them for that matter either.
Truly qualified people from good lineage usually don’t rely on lineage to demonstrate their skill.
Its not like buying a pedagree dog.
Good lineage is valuable, yes, but no guarantee, and no insurance policy. Skill lives with the man today. What you see is what you get, don’t get fooled by smoke and mirrors.
sure there are more factors to getting a good education than a good name. Here at UD Davis, I always hear that UC Berkeley is just a Grad school, and that undergrads are not really taught anything, and the class sizes are too bit. I dont know who is right. I know that Universities and Kung Fu are not quite the same, because you can not know anything, but still land a high paying job for the rest of your life, but maybe my point gets across.
What is my point…I guess i am saying that Berkeley is a good school no matter how you slice it, despite what some haters at my school say, and lineage is still a generally good way to know if you are getting the goods or not.
you mentioned fancy leniage. and then you go on to say that all the frauds have it and all the best have it? i dont know exactliy what you are saying.. maybe just that you everybody has some kind of leniage and you cant necessarily determine what somebody’s skill is like just because of their leniage. is that right? Is that what u are saying?
[QUOTE=bredmond812;763738]…you cant necessarily determine what somebody’s skill is like just because of their leniage. is that right? Is that what u are saying?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
I think I said something like all all frauds will have a fancy lineage, but only some of the really good guys will. Its a must have for all the best dressed wankers this season.
and lineage is still a generally good way to know if you are getting the goods or not.
Reply]
No, it is not. You could have a teacher who learned from many, and made up a lineage to make himself legit.
I know of one for instance who was a small time private student of Won Ark Wei. When he started teaching suddenly he was claiming to be the INHERITOR of Won Ark Wei’s lineage. It took me quite a bit of searching before i found who the real top dogs of that line were…and it definetly wasn’t the individual in question.
Also, you can have someone who does have a legit lineage to a famous master, but just never got the essence of the art, and teaches like crap.
Then there are those famous masters who write people into the line for money,but teach them crap on purpose…only thier most senior and closest friends and or family got the real thing, so thier lineage today is still a crapshoot in quality, unless you know the story behind the scenes…of which only the few, who are generally unaccessible know.
You are better of going to tournaments, and seeing who the local talent is,than relying on lineage.
There is no “MMA lineage”. Each MMA school has its own particular lineage.
For instance:
Brazillian Top Team (Minotauro; Arona, etc) - Carlson Gracie - Carlos Gracie
Chute Box (Ninja; Silva, etc) - Roberto Piccinini - Rudimar Fredrigo
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;764007]There is no “MMA lineage”. Each MMA school has its own particular lineage.
For instance:
Brazillian Top Team (Minotauro; Arona, etc) - Carlson Gracie - Carlos Gracie
Chute Box (Ninja; Silva, etc) - Roberto Piccinini - Rudimar Fredrigo[/QUOTE]
that makes a lot more sense then MMA having a lineage.
to me, the term MMA is getting more similar to, for instance Kungfu.
kungfu isnt as style. neither is MMA. its just a way to say what many people are doing that is similar yet may be stylistically different.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;764024]Does boxing and wrestling have lineage?[/QUOTE]
Sure they do… however, ability is what counts, so most people don’t pay much attention to lineage. Since most boxers and wrestlers compete, there is no need to worry about lineage.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;764035]Sure they do… however, ability is what counts, so most people don’t pay much attention to lineage. Since most boxers and wrestlers compete, there is no need to worry about lineage.[/QUOTE]
so i guess one of the reasons CMA might have such a big deal in regards to lineage is frauds.
so many frauds out there trying to pull a fast one. at least with a solid lineage you have a first line idea about the person.
at least you will know that the person with the lineage behind them may have been around solid material…as to how well they learned etc…still has to be looked into.
of course, my first Sifu never talked about lineage. Ever. but at the same time, he is a solid guy who really knows his stuff. i guess he just isnt concerned with it so much.