What's the difference between "street" fighting and "gung fu" fighting?

Originally posted by NeedsPractice
Lets be real billy blanks should more than know that the people who at least think they are semi serious about learning some kind of self defense arent going to look for answers in tae-bo.
And the the people who do look for it in tae bo arent really interested in doing what it takes to try to learn some self defense.
Thisis not a knock on billy blanks, he found a way to make money selling exercise to people. Look at how many dojos offer “cardio kickboxing” to help pay the rent? Billy Blanks, and taebo are no worse.

I have personnaly talke 4 older ladies into taking kempo because they honestly bought into Tai Bo and had no idea how useless it was to someone without a strong background in a true fighting art. They realy thought they were lerning to defend themselves in the comfort of their living room.:frowning:

On the brighter side, I really do enjoy doing it. Some days I just don’t have the time to get a full practice in, and I have noticed some small gains in my punching speed and ducking over the years. Of course I didn’t used to spar with any regularity untill the last 6 months or so.:eek:

1- Billy Blanks- my main point is that he is selling it as an exercise tape, and maybe some people will go the extra step. No big deal.

2- Wall of shame
In an old thread I think about people dropping out of training, I joked about how schools should have a wall of shame with the pictures of all the people who started but quit with a year or less , (something like that) and somebody responded seriously saying “they would never ,ever train at a school with a wall of shame”

Originally posted by Becca
It was a metaphore, knucklehead.:rolleyes: :smiley: And wasn’t it Sun Tzu who whote “The Art of War”? If he gets to call it an art, so do I!:mad: :stuck_out_tongue:
That is just a convenient translation. In Chinese it is simply “Sun Tzu bing faat” (Cantonese) - The military methods of Sun Tzu.

Originally posted by NeedsPractice
1- Billy Blanks- my main point is that he is selling it as an exercise tape, and maybe some people will go the extra step. No big deal.

I understand; I don’t criticize Billy Blanks for successfully marketing Tae Bo. It’s just that as a serious martial artist I call a saw a saw and an aerobics video an aerobics video - not a self-defense course. :wink:


2- Wall of shame
In an old thread I think about people dropping out of training, I joked about how schools should have a wall of shame with the pictures of all the people who started but quit with a year or less , (something like that) and somebody responded seriously saying “they would never ,ever train at a school with a wall of shame”

I see. That would be rather inappropriate. Considering the number of people I have seen start and then quit within 4 months though it would have to be a pretty large wall! :wink:

Yes it would be a pretty large wall, its funny when the people who you thought were good when you first started are gone, and the people you started with are gone, and the new people ask you the questions you used to ask the people who are now gone.

Originally posted by NeedsPractice
Yes it would be a pretty large wall, its funny when the people who you thought were good when you first started are gone, and the people you started with are gone, and the new people ask you the questions you used to ask the people who are now gone.

I hear that!

Originally posted by CFT
That is just a convenient translation. In Chinese it is simply “Sun Tzu bing faat” (Cantonese) - The military methods of Sun Tzu.

Kudos to the man that helps with my Cantonese translations.
Thanks Chee :wink:
Phil

“You see a lot of schools nowadays that have their normal curriculum, but then have some techniques they classify as “the street fighting techniques”. So if all the rest of the stuff cannot be used at any given time in any given place…then what good is it for fighting?”

GOOD thread topic, Van.

I think the label “street fighting techniques” that some schools use is shorthand for saying something else…

this is their way of saying that the “system” they are teaching doesn’t have all the answers to combat.

So rather than openly say that, and that they are doing some crosstraining - or at the very least - that they have “borrowed” some moves from other systems of combat…

they call it “street fighting techniques”.

So it is marketing, alright.

They can draw more students by having a fancy sign out front advertising some fancy KUNG FU NAME…

then they could be having a sign saying something like…

“JOE’S STREETFIGHTING ACADEMY”.

But as long as they are providing quality training that actually teaches and prepares their students for real fighting…then I guess it doesn’t really matter.

[B]I think the label “street fighting techniques” that some schools use is shorthand for saying something else…

this is their way of saying that the “system” they are teaching doesn’t have all the answers to combat.

So rather than openly say that, and that they are doing some crosstraining - or at the very least - that they have “borrowed” some moves from other systems of combat…[/B]

I don’t know about that Ultimatewingchun. Seems to me that what the “Streetfighting” schools are saying is more akin to, “We don’t concentrate too much on Forms, spiritual development, or sport. Instead we try to apply what we do to streetfighting.”

But as long as they are providing quality training that actually teaches and prepares their students for real fighting…then I guess it doesn’t really matter.

That’s sort of the point in my opinion of any MA, but alot of schools DON’T teach methods that work, and among those that do teach real combat skills, it’s often not the main concentration. Such a shame.

Hey Victor, Vankuen I think this forum is going to become popular with some WC people :wink:
PR

That would be cool, Phil.

This thread is pretty old actually, I remember a long time ago when this forum used to be as packed as the rest. Maybe we can make it happen again.

First of all, what constitutes street fighting? Are we talking about someone who fights with western boxing punches and tackles you. Gouges your eyes and will bite too? Or just someone who goes adreneline crazy and starts swinging wildly?

How do we define Gong fu (Kung fu, Gung fu)? As stated earlier, gong fu is the time aquired skill at something. If your fighting skill is excellent, then they say your gong fu is good.

In relation to Chinese martial arts, we’re literally talking about thousands of styles. External styles, internal styles, northern, southern. Not to mention Shuai Jiao.

So how a Chinese schooled martial artist deals with an attack depends on the style he has studied. Whether he is successful against an attack depends on whether his gong fu is good.

Now, people debate whether Chinese martial arts are practical, because at times they seem “flowery” and out of step with reality. Like when someone sees a Tai Chi form and wonders how in the hell you’re gonna beat someone with that.

Well, it’s my opinion that “real” Chinese martial arts are pretty hard to find anywhere in the world, including China and Taiwan. But the real deal is out there. Often you see people training in the States who have no idea about the application of what they practice. Often they confuse the training method for application. This is common with forms. They are not just a cataloged sequence of seamingly useless techniques. Form training is necessary for developing movement, coordination, rootedness, fluidity. They are a basic building block. Can you get this stuff without forms? Sure, but form training is a classically proven method for developing these skills.

Chinese gong fu is mostly poorly understood, poorly taught, and poorly practiced around the world. It is not theoretical, unproven stuff, but rather, with most styles, a complex art that is not mastered in a short time. It wasn’t designed to be mastered in a short time. In the old days, people trained from childhood many, many hours. Martial arts was in most cases a livelyhood. Practicioners were in the military, private security, and teachers to the emperor’s family. It was serious stuff then. Most people don’t even practice a fraction of what was done in the old days.

So when you have guys who don’t really understand the art, who are not masters of the art, trying to teach it as a quick self defense and fighting art, you’re screwed. No wonder people have low opinion of Chinese martial arts. And anyone can pass themselves off as a master these days too. Who really challenges that?

The mixed martial arts of today are more easily understood in concept than a lot of the Chinese stuff. It’s easier to perfect, because it is easier to understand. Now I’m not saying that it’s easy trainng, but rather it’s easier to work hard and apply effort to something that is pretty straight forward. If you teach someone the basic western boxing punches, it’s not that difficult to understand the mechanics involved. So you can more readily apply time and sweat to making those punches harder and faster. Whereas with some Chinese skills, it isn’t within ones natural understanding how things work. So before you can train it, you gotta understand it. Some people just never make it past understanding hurdle, so they practice incorrectly. This is most common in the internal martial arts styles.

MMA is more practical stuff if you want to have someone ready to fight in a relatively short amount of time. It’s that simple.

Given the same amount of training time a MMA artist will probably cream most CMA artists. But that doesn’t mean that CMA is inferior, it just means that correct training and a longer training (and learning curve) are involved.

I agree with you 99%

Now the question is knowing this does a person want to put the amount of time and effort into kung fu ( in general) or something less time intensive?