Guys,
Does anyone know if KUNG FU has a word for bushido or is the character for bushido in chinese same or mean something different?
Does anyone have the characters for bushido?
Cheers
FT
maybe wude?
Donât think there is one actually.
I wonât consider Wude as being Bushido. Wude is more like confucian ethics with a martial flavor to it. With concepts like benevolence, rightiousness, rituals, loyalty etc being the same but espressed differently. Bushido on the other hand IMO is an ethical conduct that the samurai developed (almost) independently of commonly accepted moral values. the Bushi is basically a very unique class of people. I donât think there is such a class in Chinese society. Mainly because the âwarriorsâ of Chinese society needed to go through exams. Hence, any John Doe who have got martial(military) education can hold military office. But the Japanese samurai status, despite being trained from birth, can be inherited. Hence, they are qualitatively different by blood. Most samurais back then feels great separation between themselves and the commoners. Believing themselves to be superior in terms of bloodline and heritage. Anyway, Bushido in this sense becomes a kind of ethics exclusive to the samurai while wude is more like a form of interpretation of a larger ethical code shared by all.
Wow. Iâll be truly impressed if you get a better answer than that. Nicely said, Chinwooer.
Chinese Bushido
Wushutao. Thatâs a literal translation of the characters, but itâs not really used as such by the Chinese. Wude would more accurately describe the concept/meaning.
The closest chinese concept would be âxia yiâ or âthe ethics of xia shiâ. âxia shiâ means swordsman. âyiâ means ethics. Not the âyiâ for intent.
wm
Hey Gene, I think the second charatere is âShiâ not âShuâ as in the one that looks like + but with a _ underneath it⌠person to Japanese people
martial person path/way
Wu Shi Dao
thanks guys
Do you think that kung fu is missing the wushi dao comparing to the japanese bushido? What i mean is the attitude of the practitioner?
Does the characters for wushi dao the same as bushido?
lkfmdc,
So wushi dao means the Way of the a martial artist?
Does anyone have the chinee characters or know where to get it?
Regards
FT:)
As I have told my students before.
Never judge the quality of one culture using the standards and values of another.
I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is nothing âmissingâ in Chinese Martial Arts in terms of character cultivation. As there is no such thing as a unique warrior class in chinese society, there is no need for a unique warrior ethical code.
btw lkfmdc, I would personally translate Shi with âintellectualâ rather than âpersonâ. In my understand of Chinese (which is rather limited I must admit) the term âShiâ is not given to to anyone. Only some kind of people who have higher education level of some sort.
CHINWOOER
Thanks and i have to agree with you, there isnt anything missing in chinese kung fu.
Just looking for some opinions!
Cheers
FT
FT, I donât think CMA really needs a parallel idea. I think Bushido is a fairly Japanese sort of concept and fits the culture pretty well. I think that the concept of wude fits CMA better. Ultimately I think attitude is a personal thing anyway, and to try to proscribe an attitude does not do justice to the individuality of the practitioner. After all, we all practice MA for different reasons so a blanket attitude is not really going to cut it.
Joe Doe
TRUE, i was just trying to see if the chinese had a similar code or word to describe the chinese martial artist.
gung hei faat choy
Re: Joe Doe
Originally posted by fiercest tiger
[B]TRUE, i was just trying to see if the chinese had a similar code or word to describe the chinese martial artist.
gung hei faat choy [/B]
Fair enough. I personally think wu de/mo duk is a similar sort of code though not quite the same.
gun hey fa choy to you too. Have a good one, and good luck to your lion dance team
FT,
I attached the Bushido characters in gif format.
wm
Thanks
wandering monk, Thanks mate appreciate it! Do you have the chinese characters for mo duk or wu de?
Joe Doe,
You guys doing anything for the new year festivals? Do you guys do lion dancing?
FT:)
Re: Thanks
Originally posted by fiercest tiger
[B]wandering monk, Thanks mate appreciate it! Do you have the chinese characters for mo duk or wu de?
FT:) [/B]
FT,
Here you go. I got a chinese word processor, so I can type out most characters and just screen capture it.
wm
Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
Wude is more like confucian ethics with a martial flavor to it. With concepts like benevolence, rightiousness, rituals, loyalty etc being the same but espressed differently. Bushido on the other hand IMO is an ethical conduct that the samurai developed (almost) independently of commonly accepted moral values.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but that is not quite correct.
- Bushido was founded and developed along the precisely the same confucian ethics.
- The samurai were originally a trained meritocracy, though Iâm splitting hairs (or should I say âheirsâ?! :rolleyes:
) cos the hereditary system followed a short while later.
The âfounderâ of the state of Japan, âPrinceâ Shotoku Taishi (574-622), was also the founder of the feudal system based on the samurai. At that time, from what is written in the annal, the samurai were trained, tested and qualified mounted archers, although the hereditary system followed maybe but half a century later.
The principles of bushido were not established until the Kamakura Period (1192 - 1333?) by which time buddhism had a firm hold, but it was still the confucianism which held sway. The principles of bushido perhaps reached their most polished in the Edo Period at the same time as the confucianist scholars reached their most polished fusion of zen and the pillars of their own belief.
The principles of confucianism developed hand in hand with the samurai in Japan, and certainly not independent of any other moral system. Indeed the samurai were supposed to be the pillars of the philosophy underpinning the whole of Japanese society.
The confucianist ethics are still present in modern budo. The five pleats on the kendokaâs hakama represent jin (humanity/compassion), gi (justice), rei (politeness), chi (wisdom), and shin (loyalty): the Five Pillars of Confucianism.
The other pillars of bushido are also directly from confucianism, including; chusei (allegiance), gisei (sacrifice), shingi (faithfulness), renchi (difficult to translate but roughly, selfless purity), reigi (courtesy/decency), keppaku (innocence), kenyaku (thrift), shoubu (martial virtue), meiyo (honour/credit), jyouai (affection).
Thus the following statement:
Anyway, Bushido in this sense becomes a kind of ethics exclusive to the samurai while wude is more like a form of interpretation of a larger ethical code shared by all.
works more nicely thus:
Anyway, Bushido in this sense becomes a kind of ethics exclusive to the samurai while also being a form of interpretation of a larger ethical code shared by all.
despite being seemingly contradictory. (Of course, the marrying of the contradictory aspects is where zen comes in!!!
Originally posted by lkfmdc
[B]Hey Gene, I think the second charatere is âShiâ not âShuâ as in the one that looks like + but with a _ underneath it⌠person to Japanese people
martial person path/way [/B]
The original meaning of âshiâ in Japanese is (otoko) âmanâ and in fact (samurai) âsamurai/warriorâ, not âpersonâ. The original meaning of âbuâ is (takedakeshii) âferociousâ, despite being made up of the radicals âstopâ and âspearâ/âspearmanâ⌠which somewhat makes a mess of modern peaceful budokaâs interpretations of âstopping a spearâ meaning âpeaceâ, although in the wider context of (confucian/zen) samurai ethics and their (albeit often failed) ideals of protecting the common people it still makes some sense.
But anyway, the literal, oldest meaning of âbushidoâ is âthe way of the ferocious warriorâ though as most scholars of Japanese will tell you kanji in a compound do not necessarily keep their individual meaning.
Have I impressed Ap yet?!
Originally posted by Mat
The original meaning of âbuâ is (takedakeshii) âferociousâ, despite being made up of the radicals âstopâ and âspearâ/âspearmanâ⌠which somewhat makes a mess of modern peaceful budokaâs interpretations of âstopping a spearâ
uhem..
I donât about the Japanese kanji, but the âBuâ character is composed of the Chinese radical for âstopâ and âconflictâ, hence âstop conflictâ. It might not make much sense in Japanese to âstop spearsâ, it makes perfect sense in chinese, âto stop conflictâ.
wm