so firehawk after all this info what does hakka mean to you?its ok if you don’t want to answer?
the cantonese say we are the visitors?
sui-fuw
I think if the Hakka Pak Mei Sifus dont want anybody to know or see there style they have the right to do so as long as the style does not die out like other styles that are lost.I must addmit that i find the Hakka styles Fascinating and to here that there are five different styles of Hakka Pak Mei is amazing the other styles of Pak Mei are great too.I am lucky that i have come incontact with a hakka person who has kindly sent me material to learn the Hakka Unicorn style this is a style that i prize and will practice it till the day i die of course i practice it to the best of my knowledge and understanding .But like the Hakka Pak Mei style i am forbbiden to reveal information about Hakka Unicorn style this i promised the Hakka sifu.
fire what can i say the key lin can not be taught or learnt in certain movements.only calling the spirit of key lin will help to express ones-self of the art.
it takes 12 hrs to prepare for just one dance.why?the rythem from the intruments,why?
anyone can do it,but do it well thats another thing?
sorry theres only one style of pak mei thats the guand dao in china.
there are 5 hakka styles.we originate from “hons” not the "hans"the 5 hakka styles come from the hons which are from china.
i like you,but the info you dig up is questionable.like i said nothing is documentated unless your the son of…sorry not daugter because she will marry out and the surname lost.
k.f is only a way to express,the worst thing is to emelate your si-fu.i hope this helps and hope i didn’t offend you in any way 
how many hakka . . .
question - how many hakka does it take 2 change a light bulb?
answer - 4 . . . 1 to lie and say he knows how 2 when he doesn’t . . . 2nd to lie and say the 1st is not lying . . . 3rd to go find someone who actually knows how to change a light bulb & then come back and teach 1st 2 hakka . . . 4th to lie and say only hakka know how to change light bulb hakka bak mei, like all things hakka, stolen, incomplete, good only for hakka women with their iowa farm girl ankles
sui-fuw
I hope we are talking about the same thing there is a Unicorn Dance and a Hakka Unicorn Kung fu style what i have been learning is the hakka Unicorn kung fu style and not the unicorn dance ? The Hakka Unicorn kung fu style is real cool.sui-fuw i am not offended no problem.sui-fuw in your opinion and i ask this to alot of different people what do you think the style in Malaysia called Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist is i know it is a hakka style do you think it is a version of Chu Gar Southern Mantis and maybe mixed with Pak Mei alot of people say it resembles Pak Mei white Eyebrow?I am always open to peoples opinions.
Unicorn
Firehawk- I think what Sui Fuw is saying is that yes there is a kung fu system of the unicorn, but a part of that is the Unicorn Dance.
The dance itself is not set but in free expression.
Can a practiotioner have the spirit of the Unicorn? When one sees this dance with a person expressing freely then he has ‘sing gung’
I have seen many, from my village from different practioners and their skill level varies.
Good luck with your unicorn kung fu. I hope you will ‘sing gung’ and keep it ‘alive’
Cheung Lai Cheun’s PM
So, we have Cantonese PM that’s different to Kowloon PM, that’s different to Viet PM, that’s different to commercial PM, that’s different to… (fill in the blank).
And of course, everybody that’s part of one line knows all the secrets of the other lines…right? 
So, beyond ego, racism and insecurity, logically there is some interesting fact to be examined, I suspect.
Pak Mei existed before Cheung Lai Cheun (CLC), obviously. Nobody has yet “proven” that a man named “Pak Mei” really existed, beyond Chinese fairytale, that is…
Perhaps he was simply an Icon for Taoist discipline, perhaps a real warrior monk, who knows? But the style certainly came from somewhere…
CLC blended his previous studies (as already mentioned) and those of his cousin and training partner Lam Yew Gwai (Dragon Style) into his style as fundamentals to carry the “essence” of what he learned as “Pak Mei” the vessels to carry the “power” if you will. Does that make sense to any of you, my learned colleagues?
It would be interesting to hear more about these “ancient” non- Cheung Lai Cheun lineages. Can anybody name more ‘ancient’ lineages besides the Li Long? They say Pak Fu is related too… (please excuse my Gwai Lo Chinese…)
I believe the book by HB Un says the style he learned from the monk(s) at Ghong How Gee had no name. So, I would agree with SM that Pak Mei was named by CLC, and though the styles may be the same, the name at least is of his creation. This means little, other than that you can’t trust names… Or that I’ve only read one book… 
Hakka Fist, is your “Hakka” style from Cheung Lai Cheun, is yours one of the ancient lineages?
Cannon Fist, does Chau Phu teach “Hakka” Pak Mei, or is that different?
Sifu Cheung Leung and Sifu Liang both, at different times told of 3 early students of Cheung Lai Cheun:
- Har Hon Hung
- Yau Yen Wah (went to Malaysia)
- Cheng Kwan Hop or Chun Wai Bok (went to VIETNAM)
Do any of these names ring a bell? SM? CF? Anybody?
Obviously, FT and YKM players know Har Hon Hung, anybody else? Do these men relate to Hakka Pak Mei at all?
FT, your boy hit town yet?
yum cha
yes my student is here and enjoying himself, still trying to catch up on sleep and settle in! we will catch you soon for yum cha?
later
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To excuse the pun lol!
cloud thats what i mean,well said.
fire can’t talk of chu gar.unless you are chu gar.its a rule and can’t get into debate about it.so,are you chu gar?sorry.
yum in hakka pak mei…the shoulders of a pantha[pow]the belly of the dragon[lung tuwe]legs of a horse[ma guok]…just a taste,the hands can be anything,thats how its evolved from gwang doa 5 animals[expressions]
you see the human body can be pushed passed it limits with expression[speed,power,agility and so forth]
ykm is not related directly.hakka forms are shorter than ykm and do not stick to the parameters of gwang dao pak mei.
it is impossible to conquer all levels,however it is possible to conquer oneself,learn all the forms you may,it will always boil down to quality.
you may ask how can i teach?you can’t.quality can not be taught only to express and show this to student.
but then again its all bull sh!t.so have fun
Lineage
Yum Cha, we are also from the lineage of Cheung Lai Chun. Our grandmaster Lee Sai Keung was a student of Cheung Lai Chun. We heard that Cheung Lai Chun in the beginning learned “Shaolin kungfu”, only later he heard of his master Chuk Fat Wan that the art was created by Pak Mei. So in honor of Pak Mei he (re)named the style Pak Mei Pai. He wasn’t told earlier because the styl was “forbidden”. Even in those days secrets enough.
Hakka Fist
(www.packmeipai.nl)
sui fuw
i thought its head of the leopard, back of the tiger, waist of the dragon, legs of the horse?
also lung yuil-fu bo for the stance and waist training!
also i recieved your gift, thankyou although i wasnt expecting that! 
nice , but i thought maybe something kung fu would have been better!
is there an address i can send you something? and no its not my hand 
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f.t,not in hakka shoulders of panther or leopard,and yesback of tiger i don’t know the head of leopard,but there are a few more.
the gift i hope you like it.it is something of k.f you have to look closely[hidden].but it was a present to me and now to you.i hope you will pass it to some-one else for its not to keep sorry,and not to a student,if you can understand?
if i e-mail you an adress,please please please can you send me your hand,preferably the left one
no i’ll keep my id to myself thanks
p.s i miss battling with you,your the only challenge,please go back and play you old cat
Sui fuw
How about a ‘belly of a pig’
or ‘bald as a coot’
Sorry F.T only joking!!! Keep your hair on!!!
Yum Cha: Chau Phu’s Pak Mei lineage comes from Chang Wai Bok (or Chang Hoi Ming). Chang Wai Bok is Hakka but he taught in Vietnam. Chang Wai Bok was originally a Bak Sing Choy Lee Fut practitioner but he lost in a challenge match and as a result decided to branch out to Pak Mei. He found that Pak Mei was more suitable for himself as he never lost any matches again. The Pak Mei in Vietnam can be traced to three main lineages, namely Chang Wai Bok, Lai Kwai and Wong Yeu Kong. All of them are Hakka. I was told back in those times its rare for non Hakka to learn Pak Mei.
Chau Phu’s other lineage is from Cheung Ping Lam. Cheung Ping Lam mentioned that he himself was still a little kid when Chang Wai Bok was learning with his dad, Cheung Lai Chuen. So this gives a little indication of the period that Chang Wai Bok was learning with CLC.
early vs late
Cannon,
thanks for confirming what I understood to be accurate. Yes, I think there is a fundamental difference between the early students of Cheung Lai Cheun, and those taught when Cheung Lai Cheun’s sons were of age. A young man teaches different than an older one. That would account for the closeness in our styles. Give Chau Phu my regards next time you see him.
Sui Fuw,
It all sounds like the Pak Mei I know. I concur with your comment, “learn all the forms you may,it will always boil down to quality.” Pak Mei lives in the execution, not in the patterns, from my experience.
People talk about the “Old way” and the “New way” of doing Pak Mei. The new way is more complicated, the patterns are longer, from what I understand.
Is Gwang doa, Guangzhou in Hakka dialect, or is my ignorance showing?
There is a pattern called Ng Yang, 5 Animals, or 5 ways, is that of any relevance?
Hakka Fist, thanks for the info.
FT, call me for lunch when you come into the City. Anybody else?
sui fuw
i am too old to fight, lol but i do miss those days! 
im sorry i cant give my left hand as i can only give you my love…does that matter?
cloud baby ive grown my hair back do you wanna see a picture of me with hair?
as for animal parts in oz we have changed the postures to head of a koala bear, back of an achidna(sp), waist of a possum, legs of a kangaroo. vision used is of a fly!!
is this near hakka principles? love and respect FT!
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yummy what philosophy would you say?alot of hakka women wedded vietnamese men,but very few hakka men wedded vietnamese women,thats why i ask.the movements are very simlar,however not the same.do you do sock sao,been fa in sap batt mor or greater still lin fa soa?
yes gwang dao=guangzhou
sorry don’t know of ng yang?
are you anything to do with f.t like a si-hing?i thought ykm is gwang dao?
sui fuw
all i can say is ykm from my teacher is very close to the way that seng sifu teaches the person yum cha! They trace there lineage back to HA HON HUNG our g/master. my sifu helped seng sifu when he arrived in australia also seng helped us too. he is an uncle to me, unfortunately there was a fall out as usual when things are to good to be true and they have a few different ways and versions of things as well as we do.
its the way its taught and the way its recieved at the end!
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