Alright, I was just grappling with my friend. I know I’m a total noob, but how do I avoid this?
I was in his guard, and he tapped me out by trapping both of my hands and squeezing my ribs just by squeezing his legs together. It hurt like hell so I had to tap out. wtf? I didn’t think that was supposed to work. How do you counter someone crushing you like that? He’s got really strong hip adductors. heh.
Apparently he has good pain tolerance in his inner thighs, too, cuz another time I was jamming both elbows in there and he’s still squeezing into me like above.
Anyway, do I just suck royally, or how do you avoid/escape from someone doing that?
edit - He’s a total noob and has no grappling experience before today. And yes, that was the only time I got tapped out. Now, the other thing I was going to ask was, I’m 5’9", 162lbs, 9%bf. He is 6’4", 190lbs, and about 9%bf, too. Is his 5" height advantage and 28lb weight advantage considered a big advantage in the fighting world? Like for the most part I had no trouble handling him (except for when I’m being crushed by his legs), but even tho I have more skill (I’ve had like 2 months of lessons only), should his size advantage give me trouble?
edit 2 - I changed the subject line, which you can see above, but it didn’t change on the main forum. Why is that?
His size is definitely an advantage, but won’t guarantee a win. things in his favor are possibly reach and stronger strikes. He may be able to absorb more punishment also.
The scissor thing is just a nuissance…you shouldn’t have tapped from that, just dealt with it - posture up, knee up his butt, angle off…basic guard pass. The thing about digging both of your elbows into his thighs is that he’s got too much room to maneuver - you’re not controlling his torso, allowing him to pivot, sit up, etc.
http://www.bjj.org/techniques/intheguard/guardpass1/
that’s a guard pass variation where he controls the torso. it’s easier with a gi - grab the gi lapels tight and keep your fist in his sternum, elbow down - like a vertical fist.
you have to be careful doing that though, as a tiny mistake will get you triangled.
Thanks.
In that technique, I don’t see what causes his feet to come apart tho (breaking his guard). Does just pushing his knee down by itself do it?
And when he was squeezing me, it seriously hurt like hell. I thought my ribs were about to crack. Even when I was in MMA class I’ve never had anyone squeeze that hard before. Crazy stuff.
Even when I was in MMA class I’ve never had anyone squeeze that hard before.
because when you’re rolling with other ground savvy people, you know that it doesn’t work so why bother.
How do you avoid it? Pass his guard. or don;t let him get to his guard in the first place.
and Seven is right. you shouldn’t have had to tap out ya big sissy.. 
(don’t worry, we’ve all had to tap out to some wierd thing that we “shouldn’t have”..)
Quite honestly, I think your body might simply be too soft or you have no pain tolerance. Or maybe it just freaked you out since you don’t have a lot of grappling experience. I see no reason why something like that should make you tap, unless the other guy is much bigger than you and has herculean strength.
If you get more experienced with rolling and do resistance training to strengthen those muscles, he shouldn’t be able to get you with that anymore.
Originally posted by IronFist
In that technique, I don’t see what causes his feet to come apart tho (breaking his guard). Does just pushing his knee down by itself do it?
a few things - pressure - you have his body stacked, which is uncomfortable. It won’t make anyone tap AHEM but it can break/aid in breaking a guard. Next, distance - his legs only reach so far.
Third, you’re pressing on his knee, further opening him up. fourth (they don’t show this in the pics, but we do it) is when you stand up - step 3 the pics - you move so that one of your legs is in between his and the other is outside of him, similar to how you position your knee at the base of the spine in a seated pass. While you are pressing down on his legs, sit down, weight on your back leg, front leg planted on the ground, knee in the air.
I know that explanation of the fourth step sucked… that step is optional if 1-3 don’t break it. I’ll try to find some pics of it somewhere…
lol @ IF and resistance training
when somone has you in the scissor guard, elbow their freaking quads. Has worked for me. The elbow is such a useful combat tool.
Quite honestly, I think your body might simply be too soft or you have no pain tolerance.
Or it could be that I have no meat on my ribs. Low bf will do that to you. It’s the same reason I can’t take a punch to the ribs (on the side).
How do you avoid it? Pass his guard. or don;t let him get to his guard in the first place.
Haha, I was starting from in his guard.
I actually felt kind helpless when it was happening. That’s what p.issed me off. He had both of my wrists trapped so I couldn’t elbow his quads. I was like wtf? I guess I could have tried standing up but I didn’t think about that cuz I was so surprised that it hurt that bad.
Originally posted by IronFist
[B]
Or it could be that I have no meat on my ribs. Low bf will do that to you. It’s the same reason I can’t take a punch to the ribs (on the side).
Haha, I was starting from in his guard.
I actually felt kind helpless when it was happening. That’s what p.issed me off. He had both of my wrists trapped so I couldn’t elbow his quads. I was like wtf? I guess I could have tried standing up but I didn’t think about that cuz I was so surprised that it hurt that bad. [/B]
Well when you are on the mount position and they are in the guard you gotta remember a few things. For one, you have got gravity on your side. If they have a hold of your wrists get out of it. There is always a way to get out of any chin na, there is always a counter. Usually go towards the thumb is a good idea for chokes and joint locks. Rotate your hips and knee them in the groin. If they have your hands trapped on their torso use a phenoix eye or any knuckle and start digging into their rib cage. Grab the clavical.
However, you already answered your own question. You were in shock because you didn’t know what to do. That is totally normal, and once you get past that I am sure you will do lots and lots better on the ground. Just don’t tense up and struggle, remember to stay calm and feel out the grappling. If you are too tense you will not be able to tell until its too late.
Originally posted by Gangsterfist
when somone has you in the scissor guard, elbow their freaking quads. Has worked for me. The elbow is such a useful combat tool.
That’s not reliable…Try it against someone who’s been grappling for a while and you’ll see what I mean.
Originally posted by IronFist
[B]
I actually felt kind helpless when it was happening. That’s what p.issed me off. He had both of my wrists trapped so I couldn’t elbow his quads. I was like wtf? [/B]
Step 2 of the basic guard pass - get your elbows in tight. If they are in tight, he can’t use them as levers, and grabbing your wrists won’t do him alot of good.
Originally posted by Gangsterfist
[B]
Well when you are on the mount position and they are in the guard you gotta remember a few things.[/b]
you can’t be mounted on someone AND be in their guard…
For one, you have got gravity on your side. If they have a hold of your wrists get out of it. There is always a way to get out of any chin na, there is always a counter. Usually go towards the thumb is a good idea for chokes and joint locks.
Grappler’s don’t usually lock the hand like that, they use a monkey grip - the thumb is on the same side as the fingers. It’s a stronger grip than the one you are referring to.
Rotate your hips and knee them in the groin.
you can’t - their legs are around you - their groin is in the air. If you knee them, it would be in the tailbone.
If they have your hands trapped on their torso use a phenoix eye or any knuckle and start digging into their rib cage.
pain tolerance…
Grab the clavical.
they WANT you to do that, as you have to extend your ams to do so… you would be either triangled or armbarred. Or, possibly swept, as you are bringing your weight forward to grab.
Originally posted by SevenStar
[B]
That’s not reliable…Try it against someone who’s been grappling for a while and you’ll see what I mean. [/B]
You could stab my inner thigh with butter knives and It’s not going to phase me.
Grapplers build tolerance to the petty annoyances.. forget the “tricks” use the leverage of your elbow& lower forearm to pin his hip down while you create space.
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protect yourself from immediate dangers
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posture.
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space.
The gaurd is now a submission?
Actually, tapping out can work in sparring because you’re probably not gonna restart if someone taps from a gaurd, so you tap out unexpectadly, then go for something:D
SevenStar and ST00 have been pretty much all over the correct on this one. I just wanted to mention that there is in fact a rib crush submission from the guard - you wrap your arms over your legs, so that your hands are linked behind the guy’s back, under your crossed ankles. Then you arch your back like you’re deadlifting - as you pull back, it forces the circle of your arms smaller, which presses the insides of your knees into the floating ribs.
I tried to gut my way out of one of these and wound up having to take a couple weeks off due to bruised ribs.
Interesting, maybe the guy thought he was just in a guard but was in a submission, I don’t know
That is the thing about chin na. It works on some people and not on others. One of my kung fu brothers has a huge tolerance for pressure points and annoying little pains (like rib jabbing), but not everyone has that tolerance. Elbowing their quads may not work, but pulling your elbows back in that same motion to try to get inbetween their legs to make space can be used as well.
A lot of it will depend on size and strength, and other apsects rely on structure and technique. I am not a big person per se (5’11" 160lbs or so) and have gone to the ground with guys smaller and a lot bigger than me. The more highly trained the person is the less strength they use, and the more technique structure you will find against you.
I do train ground fighting with choke holds, joint locks, and limb bars, but mostly I train to get out of it. I prefer to be on my feet the whole time so I emphisize a lot of my training on shrimping, alligator crawls, and triangling out of locks and chokes. I do train actual ground fighting because, well I won’t always be able to control that, but I will admit its not one of my stronger points as a fighter.
Also you can grab the clavical and not fully extend your arm in a way where it would be really hard for them to arm bar it. If you lay your elbow down near the zaphoid process and your forearm right up their chest your hands will be right at the clavical. They would have to use force to remove your hand from their body, or roll over to a side to gain leverage, or move your body into a position to gain leverage. It would not be an instant armbar and break. Infact real combat happens so fast that they would have to be really on their game to snap your arm when you extend it. I am not saying its not possible, I am saying a lot of people say they can do that, but really couldn’t.
Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Also you can grab the clavical and not fully extend your arm in a way where it would be really hard for them to arm bar it. If you lay your elbow down near the zaphoid process and your forearm right up their chest your hands will be right at the clavical.
If you do that, your body weight is forward, right? That’s why I also mentioned that you may get swept.
They would have to use force to remove your hand from their body, or roll over to a side to gain leverage, or move your body into a position to gain leverage.
Arch your hips upward. Drop them to the ground quickly. You will have an instant of space to capitalize on. As you drop your hips, slap (pak sao style) or pull their elbow over across your center line.
It would not be an instant armbar and break. Infact real combat happens so fast that they would have to be really on their game to snap your arm when you extend it. I am not saying its not possible, I am saying a lot of people say they can do that, but really couldn’t.
you gotta remember that these guys train solely grappling…making such transitions become pretty instantaneous for them.