I tryed out grappling for the first time last week at a JKD school, and I was introduced to the upa drill, and then I had a freestyle wrestling match with the schools assistant instructor. I did pretty well, considering I’m a newbie at this fighting range, I had the guy in a leglock at one time (which he got out of).
Then at last he got me in an armlock (the one where his legs are on both sides of your arm and placed on your chest), and I had to tap out.
Then I wondered: what am I supposed to do in this situation? what’s the standard counter technique to an armlock? And don’t mention the dirty tricks, like biting the leg or something like that, I had figured them out already while I was lying there.
Re: How do you get out of an armlock?
Originally posted by chen zhen
Then at last he got me in an armlock (the one where his legs are on both sides of your arm and placed on your chest), and I had to tap out.
Then I wondered: what am I supposed to do in this situation? what’s the standard counter technique to an armlock?
I believe the standard response would be to struggle like a hooked fish before hearing a sick snap, and feeling an intense agony as your elbow bends the way it shouldn’t…
I think the problem is you’ve allowed it to go to far. You should try and counter it before it gets to this point…
at which point in the discussion you have to say how he got to this point… and talk to someone who something about what they’re talking about…
which completely lets me off!
Bye!
I see your point.. I just have to know when it’s coming, and how to stop it at the right time. And that, takes a lot of hard training to reach that point:) remember, it was my first time.
i did one thing, though.. I turned my arm so that it was the inner part of my elbow he was pulling downward, and not the outer, to not allow him to snap it. I tapped, not because it started to hurt, but because I could feel I couldn’t go further, being locked down and everything.:rolleyes:
I do bit of judo. Firstly, once arm lock is properly set, there isn’t anything you can do. That is the whole point of lock. So you have to get out before the lock set in.
The moment before you think your opponent is moving into the lock, you have to relax your arm and turn your arm in the way so that it will not get locked.
Aside from that advice is to learn how to properly do arm lock.
Few thing you can keep in mind are
*position of your hip
*your grip/twist
*your leg have to be properly corssed to prevent opponent’s other arm to come into rescue.
If you know what to do and what not to do when attempting arm lock, you also know how to get out from arm lock attempt.
Once arm lock is in, you tap.
“bite, are we not animals?” - Bruce Lee
Biting’s a terrible suggestion, FWIW. I won’t let go; I’ll break your arm. The chances of you taking a chunk out of my leg are pretty small although I’m sure you’d break skin…
Anyway, to get you out of that armlock, there ARE things you can do, even if it’s extended. Take the following steps.
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Try to snatch your elbow into your body and turn your hand. An armlock is strongest when your thumb is facing directly away from his hips. Turn your hand as though you were trying to turn your thumb towards your ear–then keep turning it. Notice that your elbow is no longer facing towards the ground–this gives you more time to figure out what to do next. He’s going to try and bring it back repeatedly, so you’re going to have to keep moving your arm like this.
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Come up slightly on your shoulders and feet and try to crab your your feet out AWAY from him. Try to make your body as parallel as you can. He should be perpendicular to you. The more parallel you can be, the better. Don’t go the other way or you’ll set yourself up for failure.
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As you are coming parallel, and once you have a little space and time, start forcing your thumb down even more and turn your body with the rotation of your hand. Start to think of yourself as a drill and whatever way you turn your hand/thumb, your shoulder and body follow. Learn to leg under vice roll over. It will help.
The above three steps are general, but should help you get out.
Realize that if he has his knees together tight and his feet flat on the ground, this will be MUCH harder for you to do. In that case, do step one, but, right afterwards:
1a. With your free hand, start pushing the leg that’s on your face, off over your head. A bridge will help to some extent. The higher you can get the leg on your head, the better your escape chances. Proceed with steps 2 through 3 and come up to your knees whenever possible. Once that leg is nearly off your face, don’t let go–you’ll notice his knee pressure is drastically reduced and that’s the key to controlling your body!
If there is enough space, as he is going for it, snatch your arm as though you were trying to drive your elbow into the mat and turn your body towards him as you do so. This will help keep him from getting your elbow on his hips.
Finally, you can tap. 
There are other variations on this theme, involving walking around people’s head and stuff, but that comes once you figure out the first bits.
Good luck!
Thanks for that, MP, I had to read that through a few times:)
quick answer
3 things are important, it’s best they happen all at the same time:
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when you feel the juji gatame coming on, begin turning your body into the lock.
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relax your arm and shoulder as much as possible since it’s more difficult to lock someone relaxed
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pull your elbow and arm in towards your body
FWIW, even if you do all this correctly, you’ll still get locked if you start too late or if the person you’re with is significantly better than you.
do what the ninjas do: dislocate your shoulder and wiggle out of it.
Try this, with your free hand slap either the ground, or your open thigh 9 times in rapid sucsesion and very firmly state “Uncle!” in a loud and clear voice.
If he is well trained, he will be brainwashed into letting go. His programming will be so powerfull, he won’t be able to help himself. Then get up, and kick him in the nads 
When he complains, tell him Kung Fu is too brutal for the ring, and has no rules so anythings 'a go.
:eek:
OK, OK, I’m just joking!!!
:eek: …
Ok, I’ll try your suggestions out.. thanks fellahs
I’m gonna start at the JKD place next month, the place was pretty good. The instructor’s got his instructor-license from Paul Vunak some years ago. They teach all sorts of good fighting-tools, like groundfighting (a mix of BJJ and Vale Tudo), Kali, kickboxing/boxing, and WC trapping techs. It’s a little different from what i’ve trained before, but I need some realistic fighting skills. and that’s the place!
I can’t believe I’m contributing to a grappling thread. I suck at grappling.
Anyway, check this out.
If he’s putting you in an arm bar from the mount (he’s mounted you), as soon as he secures your hand to his chest and begins to step over you (before he lays down to the side), grab your own hand with your free hand. When he rolls to the side to lock your arm, roll with him so basically you end up over him on your knees kind of and he’s on his back. Remember that it’s important to bend your elbow as you are rolling so incase you mess up he can’t lock your arm.
I hope that makes sense. Once you’re on top of him (you’ll be on your knees, he’ll be on his back), it’s just a matter of wiggling your arm out of his grip. It’s hard, but it’s better than having your elbow broken.
I have myself doing this on video when I was fighting one of the higher up guys in my college’s NHB club. I wish I could put that part online so you could see it.
Do it slowly with a partner and you should get it.
Good luck,
IronFist
you can grab your arm, but if the guy is doing the armbar properly, you will NOT be on top of him. If you are able to roll over like that, it means that he gave you too much space when he was bringing his leg over. Either that or he tried to sit before he put his leg over you, which is a no no.
After grabbing your arm, try to turn into him and follow MPs advice. be careful while turning into him though, as you don’t want to turn right into a triangle choke.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]Biting’s a terrible suggestion, FWIW. I won’t let go; I’ll break your arm. The chances of you taking a chunk out of my leg are pretty small although I’m sure you’d break skin…
Biting is not a terrible suggestion, as a matter of fact, it is the most practical and quickest response to apply in this situation assuming we are talking about a real fight (competition biting is not allowed). I’ve trained over three years in Judo. Read Vapor’s post. Pretty much if done properly, you are not going to get out of an arm lock. Therefore, any of Merryprankster’s suggestions are pretty much useless “if the arm lock is done properly” which I think he pretty much alluded to by always having the option to tap. However, Merryprankster’s techniques that he suggested do have some merit if an arm lock is not done properly.
My suggestion for biting is for a real fight situation. If you bite, your opponent will most likely will release the tension that is helping to create the arm lock itself. This could provide you the opportunity to get out of the arm lock completely or apply other techniques like the one Merryprankster suggested. Hope this helps.
My suggestion for biting is for a real fight situation. If you bite, your opponent will most likely will release the tension that is helping to create the arm lock itself.
Reply]
Bite=pain
Arm lock can = Break
Once the guy feels Bite, he will respond by getting more ****sed off, and breaking the elbow of the arm he’s locking.
Sure, your going to get out of it, but by biteing, your just going to motivate him to bust your arm more.
I’m not a grappeling expert or anything, but I do know enough about fighting to know that pain compliance techniques only work on the weak minded. Adrenelin makes pain go away. Only techniques that take away an opponents structure and ability to fight work reliably. I’d think comming up wiht an escape that prevents him form being able to controll yuo from a physiscs standpoint wuld be much better than hoping he’s weak minded enough to fall for a pain compliance technique.
Seriously, didn’t Tyso bite Holifields ear half off, and still loose to him (Disqualifacations not withstanding)?
Then there is the whole “Aids” thing too.
Allright, in a real world situation, biting is definately an option, and in many situations, the ONLY option, but not at the kwoon, in a training situation. I don’t want to make enemys or get expelled from the place:D
Originally posted by Empty Fist
My suggestion for biting is for a real fight situation. If you bite, your opponent will most likely will release the tension that is helping to create the arm lock itself.
This is flat out untrue, and dangerous. If someone is applying a correct armbar, they are trained, which means that their reaction to a bite is going to be to yank on the arm and break it, not relax.
Biting has its place as an option but IMO I would put it in the psychological set up phase and not be any means an end all be all or first strike position.
Though on a speculative level it “could” be a fight ender.
Grab somebody’s face and bite their nose off and that would take the fight out of most. As a set-up I would say like hair-pulling/manipulation the bite has to be very non-telegraphic and quick. Like when someone knows their hair is going to be pulled as your partner does it slow, it is very much more resistable, but when done jerking fast and aggressive it really is different.
The bite is nasty IMO on a psychological level when it is done on the face, the checks, nose, lips, or even on a serious physical level if done on the voicebox or carotids.
A bite to the leg could be dangerous to yourself also, if the guy has strong and tough lower legs, and/or he pulls it violently out of your mouth in pain, you’ve gotta go see a dentist afterwards:(
FatherDog,
Thank you. Biting “May” or “may not” have a place, but useing it to get out of an arm lock is not one of them. Even us lowly Kung Fu guys know the BJJ guy will break your elbow if you try to bite him.