Weights and Wingchun?
Some say they dont mix, others say they do..
So what do you think?
I want to start weight training but I dont really know what path to take, what areas or parts of my body should I concentrate
on to help my wingchun, or is this a bad idea all together?
If you workout what program do you work to? Heavy less reps? Or lighter with more reps, I know there is no right or wrong answer to this question, but any insight would be of value to me.
Thanks 
Roy D. Anthony
Iāve heard you have much to say on the subjectā¦
Well from a newbie, and ex weightlifter point of view, I have been told by almost everyone, that it restricts Qi, if you believe in such. Wing Chun is also about structure more then strength and I think weightlifting to increase your WC skill would seem to be folly.
My friend is a weightlifter, big guy, just joined our class. he is having problems with some of the positions, he is flexible but his muscle is sometimes too big so he has to make adjustments, some of these are detrimental because he has to break structure to do certain things a correctly as possible.
For example, his elbows are often forced off his centerline during movement because his biceps are large enough to get in the way.
It sounds wierd but it is true!
To reach a higher level of WC, you must learn to get your power from joints and proper body mechanics and not muscle strength. If you weight lift, youāll be training to use your muscle and it could slow down your progress in WC. But if you can separate the two it might not be a problem.
Thanx for the replies so far,
CanadianBadAss, I cant understand how you can get power from the joints and not muscle, muscle moves your body the joints link your body right? Please explain.
Sec,
You just answered your own question.
āThe joints link your bodyā¦ā
Dzu
hmmmā¦ I think thereās people on this forum that could explain what Iām talking about a bit betterā¦
I still donāt completly understand how it works, and Iām pretty sure I couldnāt put into words yet(other then stuff my sifu tells me), right now Iām sort of at the stage were Iām just starting feel what they are talking aboutā¦ But hereās an example of what I mean Ex. My sifu is a pretty small and skinny guy, and he gets me to push down as hard as I can on his tan sao, and he can just roll it up to a bong as if my arm wasnāt even there.
Much has been and more will be said and done on this subject.
IMO it depends on the individual whether or not weight training will enhance or impede WC progress.
Strength per se is not a problem, it is relying on strength to make up for poor structure, leverage, and technique that is the problem. Superior strength channelled via correct structure and technique will make for superior performance.
My Sifu is a pretty avid weight trainer - he certainly has few problems with speed, positioning, technique, mobility or structure. His Sifu, on the other hand, used to ask him why he wasted his time. But my Sifu felt it worked for him and kept at it.
The oft-presented argument that Yip Man/Wing Chun/Ng Mui didnāt train with weights so neither should we doesnāt fly - itās possible that a sensible weight training program would have enhanced their abilities even further.
Few elite athletes dispense with weight training in modern times.
I would recommend you try out a program for a few months and decide for yourself whether it works for you. If it works, great, if not, drop it. Whatās good for you might be bad for another and vice versa.
You might try
routine 1 or
as starting points. They are written for and by a boxer, but IMHO are still good.
To address the joints/muscle issue, it is true that the muscles provide the motive force. However, the joints act as levers and pulleys which if used correctly (alignment and sequencing) can greatly enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of movement, giving greater ābang for your buckā and allowing you to perform effectively for a longer period before you get gassed.
Also, the tendons and ligaments, as well as the muscles have elasticity - good boxing and grapplling technique often involves āloadingā or āpre-stretchingā the tissues with potential energy like a rubber band, and then releasing the stored energy to fire the payload.
A lead hook in boxing tends to be slow and weak if you just try to āpushā it using the muscles of the arm and shoulder. If instead, you pivot on the ball of the lead foot to load the hip (iliofemoral ligament), then the anterior dletoid, pec and bicep, then release the punch with āwhipping powerā, you have a fast, powerful hook.
There are those who argue that this type of body mechanics is synonymous with fa-jing.
i think it depends on why youāre lifting. are you lifting to get big or to tone up your muscles? i work out and as long as i stretch regularly, iām fine. i lift to keep my muscles firm and in shape. some of the benefits iāve found is that i feel better and have more energy because of the added exercise and after sparring iām not hurting as much because my body is firmer and able to endure any hits or kicks i take. i feel like my body can take more punishment when i lift because my muscles are tighter and stronger.
SEC
try the health for life program, which you will find adds for in the kung fu magazines.
They worked wonders for me and even enhanced my Wing Chun and flexibility of my arms for the techniques. Hope this helps.
Satisfied Whipping hand?:o
A healthy body is very good.
But the longer i train, the more i have come to realise that a strong mind is a millions times more powerful that any muscle.
Great replies!!
Without wanting all the answers handed to me, S.Teebas many people have said the same thing to me but till this day I have not worked out a way to practise this, building my outer shell is easy but making my mind stronger is a different case, maybe this will come with time..
Thanx to all that helped.
Originally posted by Sec
making my mind stronger is a different case, maybe this will come with time..
This will not just come to you in time. Itās a discipline that must be cultivated. There are many reference sources out there. Look around and see what you can find, but donāt wait passively for a solution.
Best of luck,
Matrix
general advice:no weights
There are 2 broad catagories for weight training.the first is body building/shaping which is the most common.Second is power lifting/Olympic lifting.
Since most do a version of the first I will start there.This lifting requires the isolation of specific muscle groups when training.WC requires the use of all muscle groups/whole body at the same time.Hence this training will always prevent you from obtaining maximum WC skill.Also the tension etc that comes from weight traing will always work against your WC skill .The weapons and whole body excersises such as push ups will provide you with the benefits of weight training and help not hinder your WC.The weapons for example require and develope proper whole body usage and can give quite a workout as well.
The second type of training actually uses many of the same body mechanics as WC.The mechanics are just used in a different fashion.The problems with this type of training are numerous and in the long run will outweigh the benefits.The first being you need a coach that knows what he is doing or you will become a cripple.
Hi there
Anerlich linked to a couple of interesting articles there. Reading through the first one, though, I am not sure what is meant by part of it. Perhaps someone can explain this a little more clearly?
Now is the fun part. Without pause, put your arms out by your side. At no time may you drop your arms until you finish. If you do, you start over and you keep starting over until you finish.
Arms to your side, palms face the floor, Move your arms in a forward, (clock wise) motion very slowly, count out 15, Then increase the circle size for another 15, increase the speed as well as the circle size. Now go even bigger for another 10-15 circles. DID ANYONE SAY DROP THEM? Keep em up! Keep your arms outstretched and squeeze your hand into a fist 10 times. Now face your palms up toward the ceiling and go counter clockwise. Repeat what you just did in this new position. Next, put your arms straight in front. Ciricle them one direction 15 times then the opposite way. Now do 10 squeezes and without dropping put them by your side again and face your palms up. Give me 10 big claps overhead. After each clap your hands should return to parallel with your shoulder. Now you can drop them
It says āarms to your sideā but itās also saying ākeep your arms upā, so I guess that means out perpendicular to your body, to the side? Iām not clear on what he means by clockwise either - clockwise in relation to what?
Thanks to anyone who can figure it out
my instructor never said anything about weight training in wing chun. but he had a friend that he asked about it who was also a wing chun instructor and she said that it was okay for you to do weight training and wing chun at the same time as long as you remember to lift with less weights and do more reps. she said that you should be lifting to build up long elastic muscle fibers in your body instead of tight compact muscle fibers. this way, you are able to increase your strength and still keep your speed and flexiability.
on a side note, my instructor advocates using light wrist weights to perform the snt and for chain punching practice. i have found that the chain punching exercies increased my speed a lot. but when i do the snt slowly with the wrist weights, i have found that it helped me with my structure and techniques in chi sao.
I have not worked out a way to practise this, building my outer shell is easy but making my mind stronger is a different case, maybe this will come with time..
A good sifu will teach you how to use your mind to conqure, control and syncrinose body and mind (and spirit??) togetherā¦ But good sifus are hard to find.
Axiom
When it says put your arms to the side but keep them up all it means is from your hands at your side raise your arms up so your T shape.
Clockwise/anticlockwise
just look at one of your hands and move it the way a clock hand would and just move the other hand the same. you do both directions so it doesnāt realy matter which you start with as long as you change when your meant too.
Thanks for the clarification, Ish