opened an interesting email from mattfury.com today and came across a very interesting point…
For those folks here lifting as part of a typical regime or means to acquiring “functional strength” ( prettiness as an off-shoot) for best results, would anyone like to give an opinion on why seals and berets lift no weights at all and are, by virtue of nature of position, in supreme physical shape???
In fact, matt himself is an ex world class title holder and claims that his game only improved after the change -over to bwed exercises in lieu. He also gives several other quite convincing examples of where it’s worked for others. It is possible that the switch up had little to do with it, and it was in fact a physcological state that developed at the same time, and whether one is subjective to the other or the most responsible for the resulting aheivements is always going to be a subjective argument. Does that make sense? Can anyone provide examples of a reverse trade of regime delivering the same ??..I’m sure someone’ll have something but I’d would like to compare notes on this one.
I know alot of people here are die - hard fans of their routines and if we can remain proffessional in this discussion, I think it would be a good time to hash it out 
cheers
BL:
I am not a grammar and spelling nazi, but please try to write clearly and correctly so people can understand what you are writing. I am having a great problem reading all your posts and it is not funny. If you care about communicating your ideas to others then please try to write better. Since you wrote you were a native english speaker, then there should be no problem unless you are lazy and inconsiderate. My suggestion was not meant to be hurtful or to be funny. I am being practical and care what you have to communicate and if you dont care to write properly, then should I care to listen?
I personally believe everyone should master body weight exercises because it is more functional, especially single arm push ups and single leg squats. Body weight training has it benefits and I can see the benefits however it isnt the holy grail which Matt Furey claims. The problem with Matt Furey and others is their are ignorant of the science Periodization and seeing all proper exercise methodology has its place and no one method is the magic bullet. If people knew how to cycle their training in the long run I hope, they would increase their performance in the long run. I have seen that Furey like many body builders are very ignorant on such matters.
Originally posted by FooFighter
[B]BL:
please try to write clearly and correctly
please try to write better
If you dont care to care to write properly, then I dont care to listen… sounds fair?
I personally everyone should master body weight exercises…
<to be continue> [/B]
lol @ your cuteness…there was also another mistake in your post but I think it was spelling…
If you re-read my post, my grammar is perfect and loh and behold, so is my spelling…even if abbreviated and conversational…
I’m a forgiving gal though and becuse everyone here does it on occassion, and on this thread we’re making a point of NOT getting into trite discussions and irrelevant personal attacks, I’ll just forget I saw it :eek: 
do continue your argument though…bear in mind though, Matt isn’t by any means the only one advocating this training as a one stop training shop. Please continue
proffessional
C’mon, Teach. Professional only has one ‘f’, but you get an ‘A’ for effort.
damm that word…I do it all the time…lol.some habits just die hard ha
Matt Furey is a snake oil salesmen and a conn artist. He’d sell his mother to make a buck.
Ford:
I second that point! I’ve written this before and I write it again. Matt Furey’s products are inferior and I was a very unhappy customer after buying his flexibility tapes and his combat fitness book. I will never buy anything from him again and most of his stuff is misinformation.
Hershell Walker claims he only used (still uses) body weight training, and he was a monster in college, the USFL, and the NFL. He claims he’s never touched weights.
His routine consisted of something like 10,000 situps every day, and 1,000 push-ups (I’m speaking from memory, here, so I could have the numbers off). He is a big fan of dynamic tension exercises as well.
He out-ran Darrell Green one year at the NFL Superstars Challenge, and Darrell Green was the fastest man in the NFL for many, many years.
To be honest, isolated cases of individuals does not make me believe in anything in particular. For example, logically there are “unknown factors” which I dont know which may contribute to Mr. Walker’s personal performance. Moreoever, to use him as example or absolute proof for strict body weight exercises and the inferiority of weight lifting is not reasonable, not a strong argument, and of course not very scientifically sound.
when you’re talking about many individuals the argument becomes a case study. Matt furey may be slick, but we are not so much talking about him so much more than in the capacity of a signular of many examples. I generally don’t have as much time as I did today, but I’ll try to find links to some more examples.
This theory has made sense to me for quite some time, and is how I have trained for several yrs, hence the thread, with guys like Ford, Iron, Toby, possible RTB, etc being so fanatical or dedicated their system, it should be easy to come up with a good discussion .
Has anyone got any links of examples where an a-grade world class title holder has used bw exercises, changed their programme to predominately weights and seen better performance to the extent where they say ( or the math proves)that was what the key factor of the their acheivement was??
As in a reverse of what I gave you.???
Originally posted by FooFighter
To be honest, isolated cases of individuals does not make me believe in anything in particular. For example, logically there are “unknown factors” which I dont know which may contribute to Mr. Walker’s personal performance. Moreoever, to use him as example or absolute proof for strict body weight exercises and the inferiority of weight lifting is not reasonable, not a strong argument, and of course not very scientifically sound.
I just threw that info out there. I don’t believe I made any claims for or against it’s usefullness or superiority to weight training.
By most accounts, Walker is a genetic freak.
Ok, BL. I’m not fanatical about any system. I use a well-rounded approach the uses bwe’s, olympic weightlifting, power lifting, bodybuilding, sprints, Long distance running, agility drills (cones/ladder), kettlebells, clubbells.
If you do only BWE’s, you will be missing a lot. If you do only KB’s, you will be missing a lot. If you do only, olympic lifting, you will be missing alot. Etc etc. There is no ONE approach that will cover everything or even most things.
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
[B]Ok, BL. I’m not fanatical about any system. I use a well-rounded approach the uses bwe’s, olympic weightlifting, power lifting, bodybuilding, sprints, Long distance running, agility drills (cones/ladder), kettlebells, clubbells.
If you do only BWE’s, you will be missing a lot. If you do only KB’s, you will be missing a lot.
for example???
If you do only, olympic lifting, you will be missing alot. Etc etc. There is no ONE approach that will cover everything or even most things. [/B]
Agree.but only for that fact that each individual class athlete has a very real goal for permormance objective, totally unique to themselves, when we get down to nitty gritty and of course these require different methods. There is ample evidence out there to support my arguement and given time hopefully over the course of this thread I’ll find some things to share. I trust you’ll do the same.
Whooo-hooo!
I love the misinformation train:
“weight lifting makes you slow!”
“weight lifting makes you muscle bound!”
“Horse stance makes you stronger!”
“BWE are better than weights for making you lift more weight!”
ROFL!!!
I LOVE this place!
thought you’d show up 
So, you’ll be posting some links for us then??
with guys like Ford, Iron, Toby, possible RTB, etc being so fanatical or dedicated their system
only system i’m fanatical for is scientific fact.
science gives us the idea of SAID. according to this, one’s body adapts to the demands under which it is placed. wonder why marathoners don’t have enormous quads? big legs serve no purpose in such endurance work. rather, smaller, more durable muscles work. ever wonder why metal smiths have really large forearms? because their work requires impressive hand and wrist strength, and big forearms get the job done.
everything is about adaptation. if we bench heavy, our bodies will adapt to be able to do that specific task. but if we don’t do endurance work, the next time coach asks us to drop and give him 50 pushups, we’ll be gasping at 14. the same goes for the endurance fan. coach tells them to drop and give 50, they’ll push out 50 before you can blink. but when coach says hit the weights, they’ll be struggling to bench a quarter more than their own body weight for more than a couple reps. i can pump out 50 pushups on demand, and will taunt toby incessantly because he has the endurance of a big mac at an overeaters anonymous meeting. however, if i tried to squat how much toby does, my back would crumple and you’d find me lying in a heap under the weights.
if you want to get good at lifting heavy, lift heavy. if you want to get good at endurance work, do endurance work. body weight will only get you so far until your body gets used to the resistance. the only way to get stronger is to … add more weight.
I’m not fanatical about one system being the best for everything.
rtb said it best:
only system i’m fanatical for is scientific fact.
If I want strength I train with heavy weights. If I want endurance I do endurance stuff.
I just make sure I know what’s going on so I don’t end up thinking that running a lot or doing a lot of pushups will let me squat and bench a lot of weight.
MS. Blooming Lotus
I am having a hard time of understanding your points. I guess I will have to ask you some questions. For example, I didnt get this paragraph: “When you’re talking about many individuals the argument becomes a case study. Matt furey may be slick, but we are not so much talking about him so much more than in the capacity of a signular of many examples.”
Are you saying that we should stay away from field case studies which is based on scientific theory and reasoning and just focus on few indivdual cases? How objective is that and what good would that be for the exercise physiology? Also what theory are you speaking about you wrote “This theory [what theory, BL?] has made sense to me for quite some time, and is how I have trained for several yrs, hence the thread, with guys like Ford, Iron, Toby, possible RTB, etc being so fanatical or dedicated their system [what system, BL?]…”.
BL, Bruce Lee is one of the first martial artists who started using western exercise science to improve his performance and as he matured he got away from his previous body weight exercises and focus on strength conditioning. My reference to Lee is not a point for or against bw exercises. My point is objectively knowing what your body needs to be functional and doing what needs to get done. Ironically, due to Bruce Lee many martial artists started to take up western strength conditioning as a mean to improve their skills and disaproving the myths of men like Matt Furey. Lastly, perhaps Body building Science has corrupted many martial artists and even atheletes of what is authentic strength/power. Body building has led me astray for short time. <wink>
Hershell Walker claims he only used (still uses) body weight training, and he was a monster in college, the USFL, and the NFL. He claims he’s never touched weights.
That’s an urban legend. He does and did use weights but he also did alot of body weight exercises.
As for navy seals and army rangers, if no one has said it before now - there are a couple of reasons Mr. Fury forgets to mention as to why they mostly use body weight type stuff. First, large amounts of muscle mass are hard to support, you have to get alot of calories and you have to lift a lot of weight consistantly. Something you won’t necessarily be able to do when humping it 120 miles to the bad guy and back. It also just takes way too much time considering all the life saving and life taking training your doing in those professions. In short, weight lifting is not practical but body weigt exercises go with you