What’s a good system for weapons training?
I’m looking to learn weapons. Specifically straight sword & spear.
I’ve never done weapons before other than playing around with nunchuks as a kid.
I’d like to learn the straight forward, killing, slashing techniques, countering, etc. w/no fancy stuff. Just straight to business in the fewest moves as possible. Thanks. 
buy a gun… end of story.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1045137]buy a gun… end of story.[/QUOTE]
dude, i have AK-47s, pistols, etc. i just want to learn sword & spear fighting.
If you’re looking in kung fu, the best at applying spear I’ve seen were from hsing yi, though I suspect some schools are better than others.
Either case, you need a school that is not basing training on just knowing a form, but actual usage.
[QUOTE=gunbeatskroty;1045145]dude, i have AK-47s, pistols, etc. i just want to learn sword & spear fighting.[/QUOTE]
buy a dvd.
take up fencing.
I can’t think of any kung fu teacher that would start anyone with weapons.
for me, the reasons are obvious, but for someone outside looking in, not so much. prepare to be disappointed if you do find someone who is willing to give you weapons sets without the underlying skills development required.
Otherwise, yeah, stick to guns. lol
alterantely, you could go learn escrima or kali and those introduce stick fighting etc early on in the regimen.
Does it have to be TCMA ??
David’s suggesting of DVD is not a bad one.
Weapons are all about the feel and an instructor can give you some pointers to cut the learning curve, but if you do test cutting you’ll find that out quick enough too.
In the end, unless you are looking for something practical, it’s all in fun anyways.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1045198]
I can’t think of any kung fu teacher that would start anyone with weapons.
for me, the reasons are obvious, but for someone outside looking in, not so much. prepare to be disappointed if you do find someone who is willing to give you weapons sets without the underlying skills development required. [/QUOTE]
Is it b/c they’re afraid that I may go out and use it for illegal purposes? I’m kind of getting this vibe at this KF school that I’m checking out. It can’t be my base as an MA b/c I’m busting up the pads and w/e they’re asking me to do with my 3+ years of MMA and a bunch of years of TKD before that.
Weird. In my state, I can buy 2 legal AK-47s per month, have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo shipped to my home and bring in 50 rounds mags, 100 round drums, w/e. If I’m up to no good, I wouldn’t be using a spear.
[QUOTE=gunbeatskroty;1045222]Is it b/c they’re afraid that I may go out and use it for illegal purposes? I’m kind of getting this vibe at this KF school that I’m checking out. It can’t be my base as an MA b/c I’m busting up the pads and w/e they’re asking me to do with my 3+ years of MMA and a bunch of years of TKD before that.
Weird. In my state, I can buy 2 legal AK-47s per month, have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo shipped to my home and bring in 50 rounds mags, 100 round drums, w/e. I wouldn’t use a spear.[/QUOTE]
a gun is a superior weapon and doesn’t require physical precepts to the extent that classical weapons do.
nobodies afraid about legalities, although, it isn’t in the best interest of anyone to teach martial arts to anyone of discernibly low character. Not that you are, I’m just saying.
however, with a gun, you can spend an hour to learn how to use it and you’re good to go really.
not so with a weapon that takes somewhat more skill to learn how to use properly, retain and get good with such as blades and blunts are. Otherwise, you’re just some schlub flailing about with a sword and where is the fun in that.
typically, weapons are not taught right away when it comes to Kung Fu.
typically, you would learn staff after you have gotten the precepts of the style down and can demonstrate that and then after that a sword, usually big knife or darn dao which is like a machete.
using a sword is not like shooting a gun or banging a bag or even fist fighting or even mma. It is another art form unto itself and it takes a while to be able to effectively use such an antiquated weapon.
yes, you can hack, slash, thrust and parry, rotate, draw and flip that sword, but can you retain it when you strike with it, can you move with it, can you actually get your targets with it. That’s what is learned through practice and believe me when I say, it takes a little while.
probably about a year to get a good grasp on big knife alone.
spear is another shape and another series of principles to absorb, learn and apply through continuous practice.
Hey thanks guys for all the suggestions. From training in nothing but MMA and being constantly bombarded with UFC stuff, it’s very refreshing to see those cool videos of the forms and such. Maybe I should look into the artistic aspect of weapons training also.
Most people don’t spend (waste) time teaching classical weapons applications because it’s just not applicable today. They teach forms, maybe show you once the applications so you do the movements in the forms right and leave it at that.
There are some schools that are part of Chinese fencing leagues through.
See if one of the teams is in your area. There is another league but I don’t remeber what it’s called.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1045224]
not so with a weapon that takes somewhat more skill to learn how to use properly, retain and get good with such as blades and blunts are. Otherwise, you’re just some schlub flailing about with a sword and where is the fun in that.
[/QUOTE]
So they’re mostly afraid that I may hurt myself? None of the practice swords are sharp though right? And they wouldn’t let me spar right away even with blunt swords.
Like if I were to take a fencing class, they wouldn’t make me go through a lot of hand to hand fighting basics. I think this KF school that I’m at doesn’t focus too much on weapons while leaning more towards MMA. There were only about 5 weapons in the dressing room. Other KF schools I’ve seen, have them out and nicely displayed.
[QUOTE=gunbeatskroty;1045222]Is it b/c they’re afraid that I may go out and use it for illegal purposes? I’m kind of getting this vibe at this KF school that I’m checking out. It can’t be my base as an MA b/c I’m busting up the pads and w/e they’re asking me to do with my 3+ years of MMA and a bunch of years of TKD before that.
Weird. In my state, I can buy 2 legal AK-47s per month, have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo shipped to my home and bring in 50 rounds mags, 100 round drums, w/e. If I’m up to no good, I wouldn’t be using a spear.[/QUOTE]
here’s the “dirty little secret” about TCMA weapons - back in the “old days”, if you were a serious, professional fighter (e.g. - bodyguard, mercenary, bandit), you used weapons - in fact, you used whatever weapon was the most efficacious and advantageous one you could find; empty-hand combat was NEVER preferable, especially against armed opponents in groups;
so, if you as a mercenary decide that you don’t want to fight to the death for your supper every day, another way to make $$$ was to teach kung-fu; now, you can do it one of two ways - open a school teaching the weapon you specialize in, train people quickly and effectively, and send them on their merry way to teach others your hard-won “secrets”, and possibly even come back and kill you; or, you can teach empty hand first for 10 years, then teach less lethal weapons like staff, and then, only after a few decades, how the good stuff to the people who have been around long enough that you can trust them;
over time, this whole myth about needing years of empty-hand training to “prepare” you to use a weapon took on a life of its own; but it’s ridiculous - look at Japanese and European sword schools - it’s sword from day one - not standing in horse stance for years before you are even allowed to smell weapons - I mean, honestly, if you were really training people to be effective fighters, you’d teach them the good weapon stuff first, and then all the other stuff later on, if at all;
so the current convention is basically a vestigial remnant of a legitimate approach from 100 years ago, but which now has no intrinsic merit
[QUOTE=gunbeatskroty;1045136]W
I’d like to learn the straight forward, killing, slashing techniques, countering, etc. w/no fancy stuff. Just straight to business in the fewest moves as possible. Thanks. [/QUOTE]
Join the Marines.
-jo
[QUOTE=gunbeatskroty;1045233]So they’re mostly afraid that I may hurt myself? None of the practice swords are sharp though right? And they wouldn’t let me spar right away even with blunt swords.
Like if I were to take a fencing class, they wouldn’t make me go through a lot of hand to hand fighting basics. I think this KF school that I’m at doesn’t focus too much on weapons while leaning more towards MMA. There were only about 5 weapons in the dressing room. Other KF schools I’ve seen, have them out and nicely displayed.[/QUOTE]
seriously, you will develop a great understanding of sword work by taking up fencing.
make an effort to try all three principle shapes 4 sided blade, 3 sided and 2 sided.
You can transfer that onto pretty much and almost any other blade configured in a similar manner and you most certainly will get refined stuff as well in teh learning of foil, epee and sabre.
societies for hoplology and creative anachronism may not satisfy you. Often, this can be hard core larping more or less and you can get frustrated banging guys with dulled claymores while wearing 45 lbs of chainmail and armor on yoru saturday morning…
it is the driving principles of a weapon, dictated by it’s shape and intended function that are more important than any form you could be taught.
…and tgy is right, there is attachment to a point of view in kung fu that you may not find sensible at all in order to learn a weapon and sadly, more often than not there is not many who are highly proficient with the dang things but can do great forms. lol that’s just the truth of it.
…and don’t count on not hurting yourself if you don’t ahve someone show you a few things. that in fact really does matter. everything requires basic training and there are “rules” for every weapon and it’s use.
[QUOTE=jo;1045301]Join the Marines.
-jo[/QUOTE]
haha, there are plenty of Marines, Army Rangers, regular Army, etc. in our dojo and when they first start out, they tap out just like any other garden variety white belts on the BJJ mat. in boxing & Muay Thai, it’s worse b/c now they get hit in head.
one of our MT instructor is ex-marines, and he’s a very good fighter, but it wasn’t the Marines that taught him how to fight. i would image that the Marines doesn’t teach, uh, swords nor that much detail with a big knife neither…b/c they have freakin’ M16’s and a radio to call in air strikes and shiznit.
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1045239]here’s the “dirty little secret” about TCMA weapons - back in the “old days”, [/QUOTE]
Thanks, this is very interesting stuff and it makes sense.
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;1045229]Most people don’t spend (waste) time teaching classical weapons applications because it’s just not applicable today. They teach forms, maybe show you once the applications so you do the movements in the forms right and leave it at that.
There are some schools that are part of Chinese fencing leagues through.
See if one of the teams is in your area. There is another league but I don’t remeber what it’s called.[/QUOTE]
I think this is the case with this Wu Shu school. There are only like 5 weapons and they’re clumsily bunched into a corner of the dressing room. Other schools, I’ve seen them nicely displayed in stands throughout the main workout area.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1045212]- Get a 4 road Maio Dao DVD.
The tough part is finding a partner. I’m gonna check on this DVD. Thanks.