Hi All.
Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
Good for a start i think
- Do you pad up?
shin guards can be worn along with groin guards.
full force front kicks to the groin ? go figure … we can show kicks to knees, use stop kicks, exercise control. We use wall bags for kicking, dummy, kicking pads etc…
- Do you do any conditioning?
as in shin ? optional , wear and tear prepares you for shin pain , but never like it 
- Do you defend against other kicks?
Yes
When training it is not necessary to use full force. In fact, one does not have to use force in any measure. It will not effect the ability to use great force if necessary. This goes for punching and kicking techniques. These can be practiced with force on the dummy, pads, anything that will take the force without breaking. You can not, even with the use of pads, take a full force WC kick without acrueing at least some damage. The only kicks I use are stomps, knee, side kick, and forward heel kick.
I was asked by a judge once why since I was a trained martial artist, couldn’t I have been a little easier on a person. That sounds good, but I told him that you can not play at it or it will not work. When you are fighting you have to go all in or run. It does not work any other way. However, when you are training with a partner it is not fighting. You and your partner must acknowledge this when a light blow is landed. You have to cooperate in order to train and learn. If you go to delivering full contact blows your training will quickly come to an end.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132588]Hi All.
Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
Good for a start i think[/QUOTE]
1)Hell yes we pad up, ciricket shin guards / riot police armour are the only things I’ve found that come close to working (and yes I’ve tried the MT pads that I had from my previous training).
2)Hard - but everything is relative. The structure of the kick makes it impossible to do anything else.
3) only except for chi gerk and the occassional clash during training. I spent years doing conditioning for MT and the best form of desensitisation for your shins is adrenalin.
4) absolutely, all types using footwork and kicks to defend
I absolutely love the kicks in the system
shin guards can be worn along with groin guards.
Yes, we wear both
full force front kicks to the groin ? go figure … we can show kicks to knees, use stop kicks, exercise control. We use wall bags for kicking, dummy, kicking pads etc..
.
Obviously the groin is a no no, when/if you spar do you use front kicks?
Thats generally the easiest to pull of while moving
as in shin ? optional , wear and tear prepares you for shin pain , but never like it
Actually (i didnt say it well) i meant conditioning as in the act of throwing a kick. How do you condition increased speed, reflex and power into your kick
Ive noticed that while WC is a punch/kick style, conditioning is often neglected in regards to kicking
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1132668]1)Hell yes we pad up, ciricket shin guards / riot police armour are the only things I’ve found that come close to working (and yes I’ve tried the MT pads that I had from my previous training).
2)Hard - but everything is relative. The structure of the kick makes it impossible to do anything else.
3) only except for chi gerk and the occassional clash during training. I spent years doing conditioning for MT and the best form of desensitisation for your shins is adrenalin.
4) absolutely, all types using footwork and kicks to defend
I absolutely love the kicks in the system[/QUOTE]
Thanks Ian
Yep, im pretty much all of the above as well.
And i agree, the kicks are great… i just think they are somewhat neglected by a lot of people
I went to some tire places and bought up all the old used lawn tractor tires. I have several posts in the ground with a little flex, and then dropped the tires down over the post. You don’t have to just stand there kicking till your legs fall off, just when you walk past em kick the hell of of them a few times. Eventually you can kick like a young mule. With WC kicks, speed is not really all that important. You only kick when you can’t hardly miss anyway. And most people that can kick real hard can usually kick real fast too.
Shinpads, groin cup, mouthguard, big or small gloves depending on what we are working on.
After having spent about $35000 on various dental procedures, I’m not a fan of taking any more full power shots to the face. I’ve had knee surgery too and have no interest in repeating that experience.
Working under constant threat of injury if you make a mistake does not encourage experimentation or creativity. Most of the “tough” schools I’ve seen don’t produce the best fighters because they spend too much time unable to train because of injury or are forced to play it too safe. I train at a school which has produced UFC competitors and winners of national shows, and they don’t go all out all the time.
You need to go close to all out occasionally, but doing it all the time is nuts.
Best way to condition the kicking muscles is to do lots of kicking. You can add resistance with bands. Some say “don’t use ankle weights whatever you do!” and I agree, but only for fast kicks where the tendons will get damaged through hyperextension. Ankle weights work great for slow to medium speed kicking. Really helps get the kicks up high and retract them fast. Keep the speed down and concentrate on form and there’s next to no risk of injury.
good post guys,
I agree, many wing chun people don’t do enough or understand the kicks. I am still understanding them after many years.
Shin pads, tires & bags for kicking, light partner drills, experiementation with leg controlling and checking (Chi Gerk), grion guards suggested for sparring drills.
Wing Chun kicks are excellent if trained
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=Paul T England;1132789]good post guys,
I agree, many wing chun people don’t do enough or understand the kicks. I am still understanding them after many years.
Shin pads, tires & bags for kicking, light partner drills, experiementation with leg controlling and checking (Chi Gerk), grion guards suggested for sparring drills.
Wing Chun kicks are excellent if trained
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
Hey paul
So WC without kicking?
Your thoughts?
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132588]Hi All.
Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
Good for a start i think[/QUOTE]
I was going to avoid this one as I have a ‘thing’ about using the word ‘kick’
Out of interest, does anyone have a list of the kicks/legwork of Wing Chun? The names of each?
For me personally I favour the legwork because I’m light and need to stay mobile more often than trying to stand ground against much heavier people. Sparring with the legs is very dangerous, imho, unless there are set rules (again there’s the word!) not to strike certain points but I do feel it is useful to allow a student to ‘let it all out’ in the safest possible way, so:
I was going to avoid this one as I have a ‘thing’ about using the word ‘kick’
Ill bit Spencer… whats wrong with the word kick???
For me personally I favour the legwork because I’m light and need to stay mobile more often than trying to stand ground against much heavier people. Sparring with the legs is very dangerous, imho, unless there are set rules (again there’s the word!) not to strike certain points but I do feel it is useful to allow a student to ‘let it all out’ in the safest possible way, so:
Question for you… what % of your training do you practise kicking?
I think Spencer is trying to practice and use a broader scope of ‘leg methods’ (gerk faat) than just kicks. I’m going to assume he also includes sweeps, trips, stamps, scrapes, etc.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132804]Ill bit Spencer… whats wrong with the word kick???[/QUOTE]
The word we use is ‘gerk’, which is the common character for ‘foot’, so a ‘dil gerk’, as an example is describing the action/movement of the foot! As far as I’m aware there is no word for ‘kick’ in Wing Chun, just as there is no word for ‘punch’ because kuen means fist
This is why some of the older Masters would say “There are no kicks in Wing Chun!!” Just a play on words, but I hope that answers your question.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132804]Question for you… what % of your training do you practise kicking?[/QUOTE]
It totally depends on who I’m training with. Most can not take it, as you must know lifting the legs all the time if **** exhausting lol!! I was an avid Karate kid who used to kick vertically all the time, with all the spins n sh!t way before all this modern 720 madness lol!! So when I got into the Chun I couldn’t understand why everyone, for want of a better word, ‘waddled’ everywhere!!
Kicking (if we are to call it that!) should be a massive part of your training, and like I’ve mentioned, all of what I do was trained on the wooden man first (separate from the 108) This type of training, I believe, was the inspiration for my Uncles Kicking Form which is quite well known now in my lineage.
[QUOTE=CFT;1132806]I think Spencer is trying to practice and use a broader scope of ‘leg methods’ (gerk faat) than just kicks. I’m going to assume he also includes sweeps, trips, stamps, scrapes, etc.[/QUOTE]
Your presumption is correct!! 
Although GERK IS FOOT lol!
[
The word we use is ‘gerk’, which is the common character for ‘foot’, so a ‘dil gerk’, as an example is describing the action/movement of the foot! As far as I’m aware there is no word for ‘kick’ in Wing Chun, just as there is no word for ‘punch’ because kuen means fist
This is why some of the older Masters would say “There are no kicks in Wing Chun!!” Just a play on words, but I hope that answers your question.
Fair enough but fist/punch foot/kick its just a difference in terminology to me
It totally depends on who I’m training with. Most can not take it, as you must know lifting the legs all the time if **** exhausting lol!! I was an avid Karate kid who used to kick vertically all the time, with all the spins n sh!t way before all this modern 720 madness lol!! So when I got into the Chun I couldn’t understand why everyone, for want of a better word, ‘waddled’ everywhere!!
Well i got the “waddle” when i started, but i still love kicking. And the waddle does lead to a gerk doesnt it
Wing chun without leg & footwork will not work. the body should be used in a integrated way but as basics seperate the movements it shows when people don’t have a good understanding of the whole system.
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132810]Fair enough but fist/punch foot/kick its just a difference in terminology to me[/QUOTE]
No, I would say incorrect translation but I hear Ya What I do find is that if you treat the terms ‘loosely’ and don’t care for them 9 times out of 10 you will be hard pressed to actually have the correct Wing Chun terminology altogether.
Say, for example, what are the actual names of all the Wing Chun kicks?
I know there will be variations to terms, as well as numbers, but let’s start with 4 (that should be easy enough for everyone here I think!)
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132810]Well i got the “waddle” when i started, but i still love kicking. And the waddle does lead to a gerk doesnt it ;)[/QUOTE]
I suppose Man, I still coach the waddle at the very beginning, and revisit it later when the hips, knees and ankles are more refined so you can see the evolution into, what has recently been termed as, Wing Chuns ‘running horse’!!
Gerk can mean foot or leg.
In a martial context it can also mean kick. Just like “tui” can mean leg or kick.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1132758]Thanks Ian
Yep, im pretty much all of the above as well.
And i agree, the kicks are great… i just think they are somewhat neglected by a lot of people[/QUOTE]
I agree Glenn, very overlooked on the most part and then comically added to elsewhere. I guess the sheer simplicity of the kicks and the fact that they look even less spectacular than the hands leads many to either ignore them or to supplement them with additions from MT, karate, TKD etc.