- Clearly the Wong Jackman/ Bruce Lee fight was NOT over teaching Gwai Lo. Wong Jackman has taught caucasians throughout his career, and T.Y. Wong was teaching them even before that.
Wong Jack Man is still alive today. and i seriously doubt that it was his era or generation that wouldn’t teach outsiders. It was Lau Bun’s generation that was set against it.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1028512]The next day Wong was at work and didn’t have any noticable marks. Compare that to a guy after a san shou, KB or MMA bout and wonder how “serious” this “fight” really was
And if he DID win a hs boxing tournament? What exactly does that really mean?
The guys in Taiwan and HK were not much bigger than Bruce, most weren’t on roids like Bruce was! He could have fought if that is what he really wanted to do, and prove he was a fighter. The real issue is he DID NOT WANT TO BE A FIGHTER[/QUOTE]
According to Bruce, Linda and James Lee (admittedly biased sources) Bruce mainly punched Wong in the back of the head and his back. At the same time (as you intimate) most such fights of this sort were hyped as being far more serious than they really were. A standard San Shou fight today is actually a much more serious match than many of the old “gong sao” matches were.
If Bruce really won the boxing match he claimed, what it means is that he used his Wing Chun within a rule set that he wasn’t familiar with and STILL won. I say good for him.
The times Bruce returned to HK & SE Asia were as a celebrity and movie star with a family to support. He would have been quite foolish to have entered any serious tournaments at that point… 
I think we should also consider the related fact that a lot of the Chinese Kung Fu masters who taught whites, held a lot back, and still do today. Some of them are even choosy when it comes to teaching their fellow Chinese.
So, it would not make sense for these masters not to want to teach the whites if they could teach them just enough to keep them happy.
This is golden. Until you posted this, I was going to ask what the fight was about then if every one else was teaching the gwai lo themselves. Also though, hskwarrior points out that Bruce was a troublemaker, so that could explain them not wanting Bruce to do so. And maybe he was teaching too much and not holding enough back.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1028515]I think we should also consider the related fact that a lot of the Chinese Kung Fu masters who taught whites, held a lot back, and still do today. Some of them are even choosy when it comes to teaching their fellow Chinese.
So, it would not make sense for these masters not to want to teach the whites if they could teach them just enough to keep them happy.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Faruq;1028552] And maybe he was teaching too much and not holding enough back.[/QUOTE]
hold what back? he trained wing chun.
i never heard of bruce lee in china. most immigrant kung fu ppls told me “white people really like him”
after i saw his movie go in the dragon i understood finally why ppl shouted “wachaaaaaaaaaaaa”
he made white ppls think chinese ppl are all tiny and scream like orangatangs. thanks bruce.
FUK TO YOU
also his daughter is relly fat and ugly
LOL! Bawang, I’m speechless…
[QUOTE=bawang;1028555]hold what back? he trained wing chun.
i never heard of bruce lee in china. most immigrant kung fu ppls told me “white people really like him”
after i saw his movie go in the dragon i understood finally why ppl shouted “wachaaaaaaaaaaaa”
he made white ppls think chinese ppl are all tiny and scream like orangatangs. thanks bruce.
FUK TO YOU
also his daughter is relly fat and ugly[/QUOTE]
Greetings,
There was discussion about BL at the Rum Saoked Fist. Someone there mentioned a fight between BL and Kuo Lien Ying, that resulted in BL literally being thrown out of Kuo’s school. While it was the first time someone has brought this up publicly, it made me wonder whether this event was the cause of BL’s back injury.
mickey
i love how people are talking about the wong jack man/bL fight and the results matter of factly as if any one here was actually there at the time:rolleyes:
the truth is the only who know how legit bruce was were the people who actually met and knew the man
all the rest of the people on his bandwagon and his detractors all just resort to baseless speculation in the end which is gettingpretty old by now.
[QUOTE=goju;1028564]i love how people are talking about the wong jack man/bL fight and the results matter of factly as if any one here was actually there at the time:rolleyes:
the truth is the only who know how legit bruce was were the people who actually met and knew the man
all the rest of the people on his bandwagon and his detractors all just resort to baseless speculation in the end which is gettingpretty old by now.[/QUOTE]
wong jack man actually posted a letter about the whole thing. he was there and the concensus is that his version is what happened as opposed to Linda Lee…who wasn’t there.
just sayin…
[QUOTE=Faruq;1028552]And maybe he was teaching too much and not holding enough back.[/QUOTE]
I believe that he may have “projected” that he was teaching too much to the white, and not holding back. I say that because to my knowledge Bruce Lee had not completed his Wing Chun as by some accounts he left Hong Kong when he was Chum Kiu level.
Also, the fact that Yip Man himself would not teach him personally because he was not fully Chinese, indicates to me that his own school in Hong Kong held back a lot of kung fu from him.
And as far as other kung fu styles are concerned, then again, he did not study them to the full.
Yet,the man had enough talent and spirit to follow his own path and become a martial arts, not TCMA, expert, and influence the world of martial arts in a lasting manner. So, no one can take his achievements from away from him.
im aware of that letter but bare in mind he could be talking out of his ass just like linda may have done:D
thats the thing with fights that arent caught on camera
usually every side has a different story
[QUOTE=Faruq;1028556]LOL! Bawang, I’m speechless.…[/QUOTE]
Let’s hope that we can one day say the same about “Bawang”…
[QUOTE=goju;1028568]im aware of that letter but bare in mind he could be talking out of his ass just like linda may have done:D
thats the thing with fights that arent caught on camera
usually every side has a different story[/QUOTE]
but those who were there tend to agree with wongs acount and not lindas, anyway as already pointed out if the chinese were serious about shuting him down they would have not sent a waiter to do the job, and since he never finished wing chun how could he be passing on secrets that annoyd the masters?
oh i dont particularly buy the whole bruce was fighting for the right to teach gwai lo bit or what have you
it was likely just a scrap on the street between two rivals that didnt end in an impressive manner (shrugs) and i think both sides were and are stretching the truth
it was an embarrasing slap fest
rich abc + skinny cantonese waiter = many lols
[QUOTE=bawang;1028583]it was an embarrasing slap fest
rich abc + skinny cantonese waiter = many lols[/QUOTE]
LOL!! Probably the closest thing to the truth so far. I rember all the old 3rd rate kung fu movies from back in the 60’s and 70’s, and most of them were actually better than the Bruce Lee movies. I found most of them sort of funny.
Man stuff the story - I want the smokin disco soundtrack
I wrote this a few years back on this forum but I will re-post my thoughts here. I have not changed my mind much since I last posted this except I now maybe have a bit more respect for his acting and his martial art philosophy than I did when I first wrote this:
I was alive when Bruce Lee was alive, unlike many of those who today have made him into some sort of demigod. Plain simple truth of the matter as I see it, Bruce Lee was a very talented athlete, not much of an actor, and possessed a fair amount of martial art talent. Here are some of my observations about the man.
He was way too small to compete in the tournaments of his time although I think he did do a demo at one of Ed Parker’s tournaments. People like Mike Stone, Chuck Norris, and Joe Lewis were much bigger and quite frankly much better and could have easily beaten him in the ring.
Bruce Lee was also a man who seemed to be battling his own demons. I think after the Wong Jack Man fight he came to question his own abilities and spent the rest of his short life trying to overcome his perceived limitations. He definately possessed somewhat of an arrogant personality but I also think he was very hard on himself and people seem to flock to him.
Bruce Lee though had a dynamic, charismatic personality and as I stated above, attracted quite a following. Three decades after his death, he apparently still does. He helped tremendously to popularize Martial Arts in his time, and again three decades after his death, he still does, which I find just amazing.
Bruce Lee was an iconoclast and as such rejected much of the traditions of CMAs including the practice of forms. I think much of that stemmed from the reasons I stated in the above paragraph. Whatever else though, Bruce Lee seemed to have possessed a high degree of curiosity about other MAs and had the keen sense to be able to pull many things together from many different arts. He therefore in my mind was a keen student, but had little patience for the traditional method of teaching found in most CMAs.
I have always been curious as to how Bruce Lee’s MA philosophy and with that his JKD would have evolved had he lived longer. Bruce Lee was very much a product of his time, a time when every facet in society was being called into question. The prevailing wisdom of the time was to reject the wisdom of our elders, but I wonder how this attitude would have changed as Lee grew older(and wiser). I somehow like to speculate that eventually he would have come full circle and and just maybe would have come to realize the value of at least some of the traditions in CMAs he had previously discarded and that his natural curiosity I believe would have him at some point in time devoting time and energy to the study of those traditions and that would have made him both a better teacher and a martial artist. Just a theory of course, and I could be dead wrong on that.
His statement, “become water my friends” is IMHO, one of the corniest pieces of psycho-babble that I have ever heard!
My most favorite Bruce Lee “moment” was his scenes in the movie, Marlowe, with James Garner.
Much of what today we think we know about Bruce Lee comes from Linda Lee, his widow, and I think she has distorted or at least exaggerated a lot of events in Bruce Lee’s life for her own financial gain and of course to promulgate his reputation and memory. I am not sure what to think of her or her motives.
Please note that these obsevations are made at a distance, and of course I never met Bruce Lee in person or for that matter, anyone close to him. Take them with a grain of salt if you want, doesn’t matter to me. Just my two cents worth.
Robert
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1028569]Let’s hope that we can one day say the same about “Bawang”…:D[/QUOTE]
Now that’s not fair. Bawang should be an inspiration to us all! Despite not being a native speaker, Bawang is resolute that his lack of mastery of English grammar won’t stop him from insulting and cursing any and everyone he can with as much vulgarity as he can muster. His persistence and faith are noble!
