[QUOTE=Ernie;848072]nuff said and thank you for being honest !
that is respectable 
I gave my ninja suit away once I discovered girls LOL [/QUOTE]
So we do have more in common than you think! My glad rags are gathering dust as I couldn’t give them away!
Did the little kiddies follow as they did for me? :eek:
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;848068]What else can I do? I was recently made unemployed (again!) and have more time to type s**t inbetween some ‘dance’ therapy of the WCK kind! 
[/QUOTE]
On a side note, I am sorry about your situation. Sometimes it’s a blessing in disguise. At least it gives you an excuse to do more dancing. LOL
Plus, this might be a great opportunity to look at other options for employment!
[QUOTE=couch;848078]Plus, this might be a great opportunity to look at other options for employment![/QUOTE]
Maybe :rolleyes: I’m quite un-employable I reckon! Can’t stand the office or whatever it has to be. Too much time away from training and family!
I don’t have the pull to travel the world doing seminars on stick dances nobody can relate to, so I’ll have to settle for my garden.
Being without the family to train with has also left me weak and fruitless imo. I can pratt about all day on my own, but nothing compares to training in teams. Coaching numbers. I miss that.
Out of respect for everyone, I’ll go moan on another thread!
Lol Ernie, WSL being criticised from the opposite (less hardcore) direction here. The way you look at Spencer for example is how people like the die hard WSLVT “believers” look to me. It’s a matter of perspective. You have to be able to shift the belief and approach it in an empirical way
it’s very simple
either the training methods develop functional body mechanics or they don’t
How would you TEST this, in a reliable, repeatable way which would give you info that would enable you to tell one wing chun variant (eg Spencer’s) from another (eg yours)? If that’s a bit of a stretch imagine someone a bit closer functionally but different ideas.
From a non WSL lineage POV.
How would you TEST this
Anyone learning a MA for self defence or competitive combat, tests it by doing just that. By Defending oneself and competing in fighting.
Anything else is just a dance. VT forms included :eek:.
Get someone to throw a punch at either mans head. The results will be easy to see :rolleyes:
I’ve heard this ‘traditional’ vs ‘realistic’ argument before and imo without traditional there is no realistic
Depends what type of Traditional one is refering to -
Traditional in the 50’s when my Sifu was learning Spencer meant realistic full contact training combined with going out and fighting, which he did with WSL often.
Nowadays the word traditional has taken on a different meaning, and IMHO its not for the better…its more about people knowing rather than doing.
Ip Man didn’t just teach people how to fight did he?
Most really old school teachers were kung fu practitioners, chinesse medicine doctors, and caligraphy artists.
So no. But the Kung Fu he taught from what im told was for fighting.
Those that wanted it for such were sent out to do just that by him, my sifu included.
Although not all students wanted it for the same reasons…
Give a bum in the street a couple bucks for food, and well he may just spend it on beer :o
This whole argument is funny cause its based on knee jerk reactions IMO.
Earlier Dave mentioned the differences (big or small) between WSL and WKL VT even though WKL learnt from him. Which others not Dave IMO, took as meaning its not effective or is somehow inferior. Nows its blown out to this LOL…
What is this about anyway ?
Some people do VT to learn to fight, i certainly dont pretend to know why people do it for other reasons
You dont see people leanrnig how to surf to not go out and surf, man the world of martial arts is a weird one 
DREW
[QUOTE=guy b.;848123]Lol Ernie, WSL being criticised from the opposite (less hardcore) direction here. The way you look at Spencer for example is how people like the die hard WSLVT “believers” look to me. It’s a matter of perspective. You have to be able to shift the belief and approach it in an empirical way
How would you TEST this, in a reliable, repeatable way which would give you info that would enable you to tell one wing chun variant (eg Spencer’s) from another (eg yours)? If that’s a bit of a stretch imagine someone a bit closer functionally but different ideas.[/QUOTE]
— simple , go out and bang no need for poparattzi or forum or linage antics , the journey is personal and the extent of how far you want to push the envelope is personal , no need to for a judging body of dudes all trying to push there religion
I never got into this for trophies or pats on the back , it would appear some need the ego boost
if you have been in the line of fire enough you develop an eye to someone that can move with efficient motion or a dancer or a blow hard …
I personally don’t care about this or that about wing chun religion you want to follow or bash , wing chun guys are the least of my worries in a street fight ,
Ernie, you seem like a nice guy to train with 
And I agree, Wing Chun practioners are usually the guys I am the least wurried about when it comes to a fight (be it in a ring or elswhere) unless offcourse they are one of my close students cq trainingspartners
“true victory is self-victory”
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;848376]Ernie, you seem like a nice guy to train with
And I agree, Wing Chun practioners are usually the guys I am the least wurried about when it comes to a fight (be it in a ring or elswhere) unless offcourse they are one of my close students cq trainingspartners
“true victory is self-victory”[/QUOTE]
Dude, if you are ever in the LA area, or if he is in your area doing a seminar, you definetly want to get together with Ernie. Besides being a great training partner, he is a very good coach with a ton of knowledge and skills to share (Wing Chun, Savate, Muay Thai, JKD, Filipino stuff, but his mind is focused strickly on WSL VT now). I’ve been doin WC since 88’, and when I met Ernie in person in 06’ he totally changed my views on WC and how it works, a real eye opener. You can’t go wrong with a guy like him:)
James
Before there are a lot of WC Practioners insulted, I ment in my previous post that in my experience most WC practioners play it safe and don’t go and test there skills. Most of them make quite a ‘lazy’ impression on me, sorry to say this …
I come from a pretty hardcore training background (Kyokushin, TKD, Muay Boran) and love Wing Chun, but I teach it in such a way that my students also have an idea from what they might be up against. Hence the extra training we provide in BJJ, Escrima and MMA.
But I understand that this is not for everybody, also in my schools
Gr.
B.
www.iucta.nl / www.wmaa.nl
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;848398]Before there are a lot of WC Practioners insulted, I ment in my previous post that in my experience most WC practioners play it safe and don’t go and test there skills. Most of them make quite a ‘lazy’ impression on me, sorry to say this …
I come from a pretty hardcore training background (Kyokushin, TKD, Muay Boran) and love Wing Chun, but I teach it in such a way that my students also have an idea from what they might be up against. Hence the extra training we provide in BJJ, Escrima and MMA.
But I understand that this is not for everybody, also in my schools
Gr.
B.
www.iucta.nl / www.wmaa.nl[/QUOTE]
No insult taken bro, to each their own, as we all have our reasons for training, some for the same reasons as ourselves, some for different reasons. I agree, that most look at WC as an easy way out, but in my experience WC is just like anything else, if you want to get good at it and understand what it is teaching you, you have to work hard at it on a consistent basis. No one achieves anything of any high quality without putting in the work first. So if I see someone using WC incorrectly it usually means they never put the work in. If that is the case they can’t be representative of the art now can they? I only try to look at those that have put the work in, if they can use it so can I.
James
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;848398]Before there are a lot of WC Practioners insulted, I ment in my previous post that in my experience most WC practioners play it safe and don’t go and test there skills. Most of them make quite a ‘lazy’ impression on me, sorry to say this …
I come from a pretty hardcore training background (Kyokushin, TKD, Muay Boran) and love Wing Chun, but I teach it in such a way that my students also have an idea from what they might be up against. Hence the extra training we provide in BJJ, Escrima and MMA.
But I understand that this is not for everybody, also in my schools
Gr.
B.
www.iucta.nl / www.wmaa.nl[/QUOTE]
No insult taken either, except that this is the first time I see TKD and the word “hardcore” in the same sentence 