[QUOTE=KPM;847619]I can see what Dave P is saying. No need to take him to task for it. Guys like Gary Lam and Dave Petersen seem to stay pretty true to WSL’s original teachings. So it would be noteworthy and surprising to encounter someone considered to be one of WSL’s top students that did not. I, for one, appreciate that feedback.[/QUOTE]
David is probably one of the most ‘‘true’’ with out adding his own views
I have compared may of Davids Seminars over the past 10 years to my WSL material and David is spot on .
Gary on the other hand has added many of his own idea’s and influences from Hawkins so i would say it’s more GLWC then WSLVT
Gary is much more power based and natural in his personal expression but he is built up from the base WSLVT engine at the core .
I see the same WSLVT engine in WKL as well but like Gary he has gone off in his own direction …
most people will find what best suits them or what interest them and refine that portion .
as a student you need to separate ''personal expression ‘’ from functional mechanics and training methods ‘’
in other words don’t get caught up by the show and try and copy that , study the foundation …
WSL left a very clear blue print to that foundation , Purest do not like that foundation to be messed with
[QUOTE=Ernie;847628]WSL left a very clear blue print to that foundation [/QUOTE]
And that blue print was absolutely there as I mentioned with saying this in a previous post
I had the change to do some Chi Sau with him a couple of times. I could absolutely feel the influence of WSL. Directness, constantly seeking for a possibility to attack… Going forward…
Let’s not forget that it is very difficult to get the right impression of some one’s knowledge when you sit in an audience, during a seminar in my school and touch hands with WKL only for a few seconds.
I myself have trained and taught for many years, probably every day of the week (maybe not X-mas ) and have been during these years on a constant search for more improvement so I can give my students only the best instruction. I have had quite a bit of training in several Wing Chun styles, but I have not been ever so impressed as by my Sifu Wan Kam Leung.
I am gratefull for the many hours I have trained under him and for all the hours to come.
Having said that, the way I teach will off-course be different from him since we are two different characters. For example my students like to spar and fight tournaments, I will have to adjust to that little aspect as well
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;847672]Let’s not forget that it is very difficult to get the right impression of some one’s knowledge when you sit in an audience, during a seminar in my school and touch hands with WKL only for a few seconds.
[/QUOTE]
Anyhow, I consider myself quite capable on having some impression on some of it. I haven’t been sleeping for four hours… Again, I really I like to make clear that I am not offending the man… I have a great deal of respect for him…He was a very kind personality. I only disagree with his interpretations…So there is no need to make an ‘under water’ statement on my observation capacity during the seminar.
I’m very happy for you that you now have finally found your way in Wing Chun. At the end, only a person knows what’s best for him.
Its easy to tell there are big differences… and its easy to see some of his students took your call about differences as meaning ‘inferior’ for lack of a better word, which i know is not what your saying.
Hey Dave, I didn’t mean it condecending, I just think it is difficult to understand the full capacity of somebody after a seminar. I am sure I haven’t brushed more then the surface when I touched hands with Phillip and I was really impressed with him as a person and as a WC practicioner. Same goes for my good friend David Peterson.
In my opinion the way I have seen the WSL methode being trained and taught it is just to limited, again just my own humble opinion
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;847873]n.
In my opinion the way I have seen the WSL methode being trained and taught it is just to limited, again just my own humble opinion ;)[/QUOTE]
there are plenty of people ‘’ over complicating WSLVT ‘’ out there so i’m sure there is no need to worry about things being limited
[QUOTE=Wai Paan Long;847873]In my opinion the way I have seen the WSL methode being trained and taught it is just to limited, again just my own humble opinion ;)[/QUOTE]
Woah! Someone has actually ‘said’ it! First time I’ve read something like this about WSL on here.
I would like to add that ‘everybodies’ Wing Chun will be limited! Nothing really new there imho. Whilst we all love to hold on to dear memories of our times with our teachers, it requires a special mind to accept the fact that our predecessors may not have actually been right 100% of the time. If they were, they just wouldn’t be human.
My point is this, additions to and the removal of concepts of Wing Chun is a daring challenge. Ip Man pretty well had it covered, but he never intended for everyone to ‘look & feel’ like him, and I doubt this was Wong Sifus message either. I’ve always been a promoter of Lee Shing, and trained under one of his closest students for a time yet I look little like either of them. Form are mere images of where we take the knowledge imo.
WKL obviously has honed his way to be ‘practical’ for ‘himself’, he is an ageing Martial Artist and his adjustments seem to reflect this.
Everyone has a right to say whatever he or she wants, even if it makes them look kind of off We as people have to understand the seasons; meaning that you dont plant a seed in the middle of December, there is a time of season for that to happen
As one may respect the other, those abroad should not be forgotten, for there is a time and place for such things Just always remember the season
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;847949]Woah! Someone has actually ‘said’ it! First time I’ve read something like this about WSL on here.
s.[/QUOTE]
Spencer
no disrespect but you really have no leg to stand on is this situation
your training closer resembles Chinese opera then boxing
much of the traditional fluff performance motions have very little to do with actual fighting
don’t even get me started on the flags and rings LOL
[QUOTE=Ernie;847990]…your training closer resembles Chinese opera then boxing much of the traditional fluff performance motions have very little to do with actual fighting…[/QUOTE]
Each to their own Ernie. Didn’t expect such comments from you but hey!? Something must’ve rocked your boat. I appologise.
I was talking of individual interpretation of Ip Mans teachings, something which WSL was very well known for (HIS own interpretation). Let’s just say that Wing Chun Boxing has a different purpose than Wing Chun Operatics, but should contain the same basic elements and principles, right? Ip Man didn’t just teach people how to fight did he? Maybe according to you Lee Shing must’ve skipped that session :eek:
The flags and rings are unique to Jun Mo (Man Sifu) and form the basis of all our weaponry training. This type of understanding is only laughable if you have never experiencd it first-hand, which I presume is why you’re so dismissive of it.
Maybe your ‘real’ just isn’t the same ‘real’ as mine. You know what they say, it’s all in the interpretation! I personally, wouldn’t dismiss the practicality of a family just because of a few lil clips on Youtube. It’s llike me saying that WSL BJ is wrong because it isn’t the same as Lee Shings. How stupid! :eek:
I hope we can get past these little obstacles, as I’m only here to learn more and share information on the Lee Shing family. I’m in no way the families ‘defender’! Am I to be criticized for being academic too and learning cantonese?
either the training methods develop functional body mechanics or they don’t
could careless what lee shing bee shing ,bee sting , wong shun wang leung blah blah ..
when you have spent a good amount of time fighting/sparring and training with people that also do the same , you develop a functional understanding of what is combat oriented and what is not [ unless you have put in this time you really are just guessing ]
and with a fair amount of full contact weapons fighting under my belt i can say the same about weapons
… so sir as i have stated in being an honest observer of what you put out ,
the training methods you seem to enjoy are more traditional then realistic
and there is nothing wrong with that ,
you just should not confuse the to this is hazardous to one health
so know need to get into a word spinning contest or history lesson about what other people could have done or been , [ fantasy fu and meaningless]
just talking about what you put out on your site viewed through my personal criteria on what is a dance and what is functional
different strokes for different folks
and had you spent the time you wasted on learning chinese in actual fighting and getting around outside of your bubble , you would have a different take on what is functional
[QUOTE=Ernie;848033]… so sir as i have stated in being an honest observer of what you put out ,
the training methods you seem to enjoy are more traditional then realistic
and there is nothing wrong with that ,
… just talking about what you put out on your site viewed through my personal criteria on what is a dance and what is functional[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the honesty Ernie, but what clips are you talking about? I’ve only put out one of ours, which is pretty hard to judge imo as it contains so little!
I’ve heard this ‘traditional’ vs ‘realistic’ argument before and imo without traditional there is no realistic.
[QUOTE=Ernie;848033]…i just don’t think you have earned the right to comment on the ''combative effectiveness ‘’ of VT since by your own account you never trained in that fashion
if this was a discussion on history or doing a group demo or stuff like that i would put much weight in your views , but this is not [/quote]
You’re 100 correct if you mean I haven’t trained in the WSL mindset, and that I never trained as a ‘fighter’ (much to Sifus pleasure I might add!) This doesn’t mean that I dismiss fighting or have done no research on my own. As to ‘earning the right’?? C’mon! This is a public forum. Swings n roundabouts y’know? I was trying to show support for WSL & WKL by posting what I did!
What concerns me is that you have such a disregard for the actual language of the style ( a familiar trait of others who post here with half your experience!) No wonder so many can’t stand a traditional chinese approach, as without the language all you have are fragmented translations of what people ‘remember’. That, I’m afraid is NOT traditional. The language itself is tradition imo and worth looking into, not for general conversation in a restaurant, but for your own understanding of what Wing Chun ‘can be’ outside of your personal fighting bubble.
On the demonstration note, how would a WSL student ‘train’ to demonstrate efficiency with the pole?
Just to chime in, I think it was just a dig. But the funny part is that when Ernie is trying to make a point with someone else, he seems to bring something up in your personal experience.
Then you two agree to disagree, probably because you both can bang with your WC.
Just wanted to say, with popcorn in hand, you guys are comical and make for a good read.
[QUOTE=couch;848063]Just wanted to say, with popcorn in hand, you guys are comical and make for a good read. [/QUOTE]
Thanks Kenton (I think!) It’s nice to know I’m entertaining someone!
What else can I do? I was recently made unemployed (again!) and have more time to type s**t inbetween some ‘dance’ therapy of the WCK kind!
Each to their own, as I’ve always said. I can only hope this stuff isn’t misread as me not wanting to learn. I hold a lot of respect for all of you here and must admit that I do take myself too seriously sometimes. As do so many.
I wouldn’t be building my own little training space in the garden if I didn’t, as I do like to share and want a place to invite people to do the same!
You’re 100% correct if you mean I haven’t trained in the WSL mindset, and that I never trained as a ‘fighter’ (much to Sifus pleasure I might add!) [/QUOTE]
nuff said and thank you for being honest !
that is respectable
Kenton
I just like Phil dude is salty old school
but I do know the diffence between being ’ enamoured ’ by a culture
and development of functional skill
nobody is perfect so I can accept Phil is into some of that shaw brothers stuff
I would rather spend my time in the study of modern sport science and the latest training methods but that’s just me …
I gave my ninja suit away once I discovered girls LOL
) and have been during these years on a constant search for more improvement so I can give my students only the best instruction. I have had quite a bit of training in several Wing Chun styles, but I have not been ever so impressed as by my Sifu Wan Kam Leung.
I stand corrected!
