[QUOTE=IronFist;1121107]This is a good article. In fact, I’ve been distracted over the last few hours reading articles on this site. I’m behind in my work!
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1121135]Wow, there is a lot of interesting material there. I will save them and read them when I have a little more time.
Thanks for posting.[/QUOTE]
It is a good site I just found last night.
A similar thing happened to me at tvtropes.org and I literally spent 5 hours there and got nothing done. Holy cow that site is addicting (and brilliant).
[QUOTE=IronFist;1121107]This is a good article. In fact, I’ve been distracted over the last few hours reading articles on this site. I’m behind in my work!
Having done BOTH Boxing and Kyokushin, Goju, Shotokan and TKD and as such been exposed to VARIOUS methods of striking I can say this:
There is a reason boxers are considered to be the best punchers around and there is a reason that when Karate went full contact ( even bare knuckle like kyokushin) that the strikes became “more like boxing”.
And that reason is simply this:
When you actually HIT something your body will naturally find the best and most effective way to do that, and THAT is the typical boxing method.
THAT SAID, there IS a place for the more “specilaized” methods of delivering strikes.
More than a few Hsing Yi people have expressed the opinion that the mechanics behind their punches are similar to the way western boxers punch
According to more than a few people, CTS included, Hsing Yi people who were serious did in fact punch HARD, very HARD
If you consider that the human body works the same way in China as it does in Europe and America, you have to consider that there is only so many ways to do something and probably even less ways of doing something efficiently
There is much evidence that when you pull the veil of bullshit aside and look at the facts, those that could fight in China in the “old days” fought with the same things and trained the same way as those that can fight now. Today they definitely train BETTER (better knowledge, better equipment, better science, better experience) but you still basically punch, elbow, knee, kick, sweep and wrestle
Again, there is so much crap attached to TMA these days, it is hard for many to see this, but it’s out there
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121232]More than a few Hsing Yi people have expressed the opinion that the mechanics behind their punches are similar to the way western boxers punch
According to more than a few people, CTS included, Hsing Yi people who were serious did in fact punch HARD, very HARD
If you consider that the human body works the same way in China as it does in Europe and America, you have to consider that there is only so many ways to do something and probably even less ways of doing something efficiently
There is much evidence that when you pull the veil of bullshit aside and look at the facts, those that could fight in China in the “old days” fought with the same things and trained the same way as those that can fight now. Today they definitely train BETTER (better knowledge, better equipment, better science, better experience) but you still basically punch, elbow, knee, kick, sweep and wrestle
Again, there is so much crap attached to TMA these days, it is hard for many to see this, but it’s out there[/QUOTE]
except the west did not develop the concept of qi. this is an extra something that makes the hsing-i punch do more damage. like a needle wrapped in cotton.
[QUOTE=dillman;1121242]except the west did not develop the concept of qi. this is an extra something that makes the hsing-i punch do more damage. like a needle wrapped in cotton.[/QUOTE]
can you prove the hsing-yi punch does more damage?
can you prove the extra damage is due to “qi”?
Unless you can do both, it’s all talk.
One might even suggest that most evidence points to the opposite of what you say. There are more western boxers knocking people out and doing damage than there are hsing-yi people
when you actually want to hit something hard thats hitting you back, and do real damage, you tend to look alot like other people that do this, boxing, CLF, lama, hsingi…of course if all you want to do is look good in static demos against thin air you can look different and unique…
[QUOTE=dillman;1121242]except the west did not develop the concept of qi. [/QUOTE]
ah yes, the so-called “west” - a single, lock-step, monolithic entity that works in every way opposite to that other Leviathan, the “east”; :rolleyes:
it’s really amazing that people are still utilizing this contrived fiction;
first of, the so-called “west”, as you put it, had concepts highly analagous to “qi” for a long time: if you look, for example, at Medieval “physiiology” and medicine, it functioned off of a paradigm very similar to Chinese medicine, that is, based on metaphor; however, once the science of physiology became more relatively objective, the “west” was able to move beyond this paradigm, and as such, become much more accurate in terms of delineating how the body works, and subsequently how to treat it medically; the Chinese used “qi” due to an absence of capacity for relatively objective appraisal of biological, physiological, chemical, electromagnetic etc. phenomena; they utilized an empirical model based on macro-observation, and constructed a pattern-recognition paradigm with predictive capacity that allowed them to diagnose and treat; “qi” was one tool by which they were able to do this, and it worked rather well in a lot of cases; but to believe that it’s the “b3st3st” way of conceptualizing things, and that using it in one’s martial training methodology confers superior skills (e.g. - doing more damage) than other striking arts, is just blind;
[QUOTE=dillman;1121242]this is an extra something that makes the hsing-i punch do more damage. like a needle wrapped in cotton.[/QUOTE]
oh please; you make a subjective statement as if it were an objective truth; if you want to do that, you need to provide evidence (again, subjective = personal experience; objective = generalizable phenomenon);
if you want to argue a point, you have to provide evidence; if you want to claim that “qi” makes a hsing-i punch do more damage than a boxers punch, you have to run an experiement; but you can’t do that; so you can’t make that claim - all you can say is that in your personal experience you have been punched by a boxer and a hsing yi guy, and the hsing yi guys punch damaged you more (if in fact that actually has ever happened to you); of course, we can introduce a 1000 variables into this to demonstrate how other factors may have influenced the outcome - which is why you can’t generalize your personal subjective experience;
oh please; you make a subjective statement as if it were an objective truth; if you want to do that, you need to provide evidence
(again, subjective = personal experience; objective = generalizable phenomenon);
[/QUOTE]
you mean,
“1. can you prove the hsing-yi punch does more damage?”
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1121268]
if you want to claim that “qi” makes a hsing-i punch do more damage than a boxers punch, you have to run an experiment;
[/QUOTE]
why, that’s exactly what you meant!
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1121268]
but you can’t do that; so you can’t make that claim -
[/QUOTE]
Be careful, or they will call you a troll!
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1121268]
all you can say is that in your personal experience you have been punched by a boxer and a hsing yi guy, and the hsing yi guys punch damaged you more (if in fact that actually has ever happened to you);
[/QUOTE]
and what is sad is that for 99% of these types of posters, they haven’t even experienced the “subjective” - they have only been told what to believe
It starts from the ground up, where the foot pushes against the ground, driving the leg and body forward, the energy comes up the leg from the ground, and up the body to the striking limb/tool, the hips are rotated to drive the force into the target and the shoulder and arm follow, the hand shoots out and drives through the target, using the “rebound” of the impact on that target to help “pull it back”.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1121291]What am I describing?
It starts from the ground up, where the foot pushes against the ground, driving the leg and body forward, the energy comes up the leg from the ground, and up the body to the striking limb/tool, the hips are rotated to drive the force into the target and the shoulder and arm follow, the hand shoots out and drives through the target, using the “rebound” of the impact on that target to help “pull it back”.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1121291]What am I describing?
It starts from the ground up, where the foot pushes against the ground, driving the leg and body forward, the energy comes up the leg from the ground, and up the body to the striking limb/tool, the hips are rotated to drive the force into the target and the shoulder and arm follow, the hand shoots out and drives through the target, using the “rebound” of the impact on that target to help “pull it back”.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1121295]I don’t think that the kicking stuff adds up. Over reliance on the snapping kicks is more likely to get you beaten up than using “pushing” kicks.[/QUOTE]
