Does anyone have any suggestions for two person drills?
- San Xing Chui- forearm “bashing”
- Shou Fa- applying techniques from forms
I’m coordinating a group performance, so any suggestions would be useful. Thanks in advance.
Two person drills, a concept
It sems you could merely repeat a mantis technique and have both people do that technique.
Or use one attack and an appropriate mantis technique…and on this have three different attacka and three different defenses. it could look very neat.
Have two techniques on a loop…
I No_Know
You study Mantis and are asking for input on two person drills? :eek:
I don’t know why, but my instructor focuses more on qinna, light sparring, and forms. No drills.
Drill the quinna…Does this make sense to you? Do you have wonder about this?
“do i have wonder about this”???
I’m not sure what you mean.
For qinna’s, I’ve never truly used them in a fighting mindset. Grab…find a way to get out…something like that.
Are there any traditional drills for shaolin or praying mantis?
For praying mantis there are the 14 Roads drills.
What kind of advice do you need on 3-star blocking?
You just said it yourself: “forearm bashing” so just go out and do it. 
As far as technique drill, I think you know the general principle already - break down your sets and try a few things with a partner, keep what’s workable to you (maybe 5-6 techniques/principles), and introduce them in one by one as 2 man drills. When students progress, start chaining them together in different permutations.
Best,
Mok
Umm…
I don’t understand why you would want practical fighting oriented drills advice from Wushu mantis here? Why not post your question in the Mantis board and ask those who actually do the mantis style? Just wondering…
Regards
Mantis108
Good point Robert, give it a try 4eva.
taichi4eva,
Qinna is the sieze and control. Without the skillset at best a person might get sieze or capture (grab infers to me reaching whereas sieze can also mean trapping ambush…being in the right place as they rest their limb~ in your grasp)
When things are too fast to capture qinna seem to becom block or deflection–a dragon who will give chase but not so far out of the safety of the cave as to geits neck chopped off. Extend within your power zone but recover to strike again.
The grabs when done in mirror fashion are drills
Traditional mantis systems have a very rich and very dense core of two perosn drills that train fundamental fighting techniques.
Training Qina apps, light sparring, and forms, and no drills is definitely raises a red flag IMO.
What type of mantis do you train taichi4eva?
Regards,
BBK
My sifu teaches a mix. We start with eight step, then seven star, and then plum flower. The forms that I know are:
Lian Wu Chui
Qi Shou
Li Pi Quan
Beng Bu Tang Lang Quan
Mei Hua Shou
We learn Shaolin along with Mantis, so that’s why we don’t learn so many praying mantis forms in the beginning. But eventually, he teaches (not in this order)
Eight Step Zhai Yao
Plum Flower Zhai Yao
Mei Hua Quan
Mei Hua Luo
Luan Jie
Ba Zhou
Da Fan Che
Xiao Fan Che
In a lot of ways, I’m dissatisfied with the way my sifu teaches because all we do is stand up, do forms, sit down, light sparring, qinna- but he doesn’t explain much. We learn from our seniors, and I can’t help but feel that if our seniors learnt it wrong, how are they going to teach us correctly? But it’s the closest school next to my house, so it can’t be helped. I’m at UCLA right now, and I don’t think there is ANY mantis in the LA area. I would be interested in learning some other Shaolin also, but I can’t find anybody here either.
Hi TaiChi4Eva,
[QUOTE=taichi4eva;721243]My sifu teaches a mix. We start with eight step, then seven star, and then plum flower. The forms that I know are:
Lian Wu Chui
Qi Shou
Li Pi Quan
Beng Bu Tang Lang Quan
Mei Hua Shou
We learn Shaolin along with Mantis, so that’s why we don’t learn so many praying mantis forms in the beginning. But eventually, he teaches (not in this order)
Eight Step Zhai Yao
Plum Flower Zhai Yao
Mei Hua Quan
Mei Hua Luo
Luan Jie
Ba Zhou
Da Fan Che
Xiao Fan Che
In a lot of ways, I’m dissatisfied with the way my sifu teaches because all we do is stand up, do forms, sit down, light sparring, qinna- but he doesn’t explain much. We learn from our seniors, and I can’t help but feel that if our seniors learnt it wrong, how are they going to teach us correctly? But it’s the closest school next to my house, so it can’t be helped. I’m at UCLA right now, and I don’t think there is ANY mantis in the LA area. I would be interested in learning some other Shaolin also, but I can’t find anybody here either.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for sharing your school curriculum and your personal thoughts about it. I think the question really is do you what art or do you want martial art?
It looks to me your school tries to have a balance with a little more emphasis on the artistic side of things which is typical TCMA school in the North American market. It sounds like you are looking for something more challenging which is to put the martial back to the art.
I believe your intuition about the methodology employed at your school is on the mark. It would seem that your school is on the blink of falling into one of those McDojo, where business becomes a status quo, despite of the impressive array of mantis material. Interests of the student, well, pretty much out of the door.
Mantis IMHO can be taught totally drill oriented, methodological, and combat oriented. Unfortunately, we don’t have the critical mass of teachers who share the same interests in drill oriented training methodology. So, status quo remains.
Warm regards
Mantis108
My seniors told me that was what traditional training in Asia was like. I don’t think it’s a McDojo however, as the school has been around for around 20 years and the people who have been there- part of sifu’s first or second generation students- are very skilled.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I feel my sifu has lost passion in teaching. Maybe he feels that no one is at his level, maybe he feels no one “understands” him.
The other day, I was in Los Angeles Chinatown in a bookstore. I wanted to buy a new staff (they sold weapons too) of a certain size and an old man looking at me told me that the size didn’t matter, that I should be able to adjust my technique. It turned out he actually learned under Huang Han Xun (Wong Hon Fun in Cantonese I think) and when he went to Taiwan for college, learned under Wei Hsiao Tang. We got to talking- he asked me to demonstrate my bengbu and meihuashou and told me that I got the right body mechanics, but that I didn’t know how to use techniques in a real fight. My lineage of mantis is from Korea and Taiwan mostly, and I noticed some differences in his HK mantis- his wasn’t as flowery, it wasn’t even that complicated, but it was so CLEAR his technique- it HURT when he did “tang lang bu chan” on me.
Anyways, he asked who taught me, and when I told him, he said that he had heard my sifu learning eight step from Sifu Wei, but it was for a very short time. And the fact that my sifu used to teach taekwondo AND kung fu didn’t sit well with him either. It made me start wondering who my sifu learnt from in Korea and Taiwan. But I feel like I could never ask him that.
TaiChi- if you have time and want a good 2 man set find a Gor Chor person and learn San Chin. It is a great 2 man hard and fast form, u will need a buddy to learn the defense.
Hi TaiChi4Eva,
[QUOTE=taichi4eva;721416]The other day, I was in Los Angeles Chinatown in a bookstore. I wanted to buy a new staff (they sold weapons too) of a certain size and an old man looking at me told me that the size didn’t matter, that I should be able to adjust my technique. It turned out he actually learned under Huang Han Xun (Wong Hon Fun in Cantonese I think) and when he went to Taiwan for college, learned under Wei Hsiao Tang. We got to talking- he asked me to demonstrate my bengbu and meihuashou and told me that I got the right body mechanics, but that I didn’t know how to use techniques in a real fight. My lineage of mantis is from Korea and Taiwan mostly, and I noticed some differences in his HK mantis- his wasn’t as flowery, it wasn’t even that complicated, but it was so CLEAR his technique- it HURT when he did “tang lang bu chan” on me.
Anyways, he asked who taught me, and when I told him, he said that he had heard my sifu learning eight step from Sifu Wei, but it was for a very short time. And the fact that my sifu used to teach taekwondo AND kung fu didn’t sit well with him either. It made me start wondering who my sifu learnt from in Korea and Taiwan. But I feel like I could never ask him that.[/QUOTE]
Interesting anecdot. 
Please check the following link to a thread that has 2 clips which seem to be quite close to some basic PM drills.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43991
Enjoy.
Warm regards
Mantis108
You just had a golden moment…
taichi4eva,
It appears that the old man was looking to establish a relationship with you. Why don’t you see if there is a possibility of learning from him.
mickey