The reason i ask this is i see a lot of form. The two man stuff i think it is called son sow. But i never saw fighting of any kind. Do you guys have any special free style drills like push hands or sticky hands. Do you spar any certain way or do you do the kickboxing stuff? Are there any links to any clips were they show mantis free sparring or free style type of drills?
At my school we dont call it sparring… we call playing hands. it is not the sparring you would think though, compared to taekwondo or karate. We start off very slow and maybe at first for beginers we take turns exhanging blows. we do basic 5 and so on. later when you get better at it we start adding in chi na’s and take downs.
That’s pretty much how we do it also, Hungy, and then as you develop, you can step it up a little, and go at a faster pace, I find the controlled method good at developing the skills you need in actual combat, distance, speed, and root all can be work through this method.
Skard1
This to me is a stupid thread started by a non-CMA practioner. Unfortunately, Mantis schools here are not “all” being taught the fighting theory. Shr ZhengZhong of Tainan, Taiwain is passing on the true treasures through Pong Lai Wu Ji Praying Mantis.
I just changed my profile I am no longer a bujinkan practitioner. I am now a Chen Style Tai Ji Chuan practitioner. I don’t mean this as an insult. I am just curious.
Re: Is praying mantis a fighting style or pure art form?
Originally posted by wiz cool c
The reason i ask this is i see a lot of form. The two man stuff i think it is called son sow. But i never saw fighting of any kind. Do you guys have any special free style drills like push hands or sticky hands. Do you spar any certain way or do you do the kickboxing stuff? Are there any links to any clips were they show mantis free sparring or free style type of drills?
IMO 7*PM is both fighting style and art form.
It’s fighting methods are without question effective and deadly in nature yet the forms remain exquisite, beautiful.
UM.
Shr ZhengZhong of Tainan, Taiwain is passing on the true treasures through Pong Lai Wu Ji Praying Mantis.
yu shan,
what do you mean by that?? Sorry about my bad English!! 
What he means is that Pong Lai concentrates on fighting more than forms.
Which is just fine. There are many treasures in mantis, fighting skill is just one of them.
Mantis styles cover a wide range of elements and the forms are just one expression of a system.
Is Pong Lai’s school in Taiwan, Tainan?
My master really concentrates on forms. For me personally, this is fine because I like forms, and they were the reason why I chose this MA style. (I started with Tai Chi Chuan just because I loved doing the forms)
But sometimes it would be good to do some more partner excercises I guess.
thanx…
greets
TCS
so what methods are used to train for fighting? Theres the san sau and the forms. Are there any sticky hands or push hands type stuff? Do you spar and how? Are there any clips of this types of training anywhere?
Mantis Unplugged…
The truth is there is no uniformed format in Mantis to train fighting with techniques since there are not rule to fighting. Having said that it doesn’t mean that such format not exists. If you are wondering if there are “seed hands” in Mantis just like the Tan Bong Fook in Wing Chun sticky hand or Peng Lu Ji An in Taiji push hands, the answer is yes and they are Tao (stealing) Bu (filling) Guan (rolling) Lau (leaking). 5 puching techniques in 2 basic drills can serve as the platform to launch myriad of mantis techniques including the famed “mantis catches ciccada” (Tanglang BuChan). All of these can be sprung out of the closed stance (Bi Shr) kind of resembling the San Ti stance in Hsing Yi Quan. Personally, I call them Choi Sau/Tsai Shou (Plucking hands). Others Mantis lineages might have different definations for the term Tsai Shou. Mantis unplugged does exist, my friend. 
Hope this help
Mantis108
PS I don’t think there is any such clips online. You might have better luck getting them through personal contact with Mantis stylists. Good luck on your search.
Differences w.r.t. “two man forms”
I think there is some confusion as to the various types of “two man forms” in Seven Star Mantis. There is “Sahn Sao”, “Ling” forms, “Dui Da”, and free sparring.
Essentially, “Sahn Sao” are an assorted series of linked techniques extracted from the forms that we practice against a partner. They are not “forms” unto themselves. Just segments of linked techniques. And we have a whole assorted series of them. They merely demonstrate the applications of techniques.
Then there are the Ling forms. Ling forms have a solo component. e.g. For Bung Bo, there is Ling Bung Bo. You can practice Bung Bo by itself or you can practise Ling Bung Bo together with a partner. Interestingly enough, the “Ling” side of the form is not practised solo either but always with the partner doing the solo side. Anything with “Ling” preceding the name involves one person doing the solo component while another person does a counter partner component to “lead” or provoke the technique being shown in the solo component. As such, this is also a demonstration of the application of the technique, albeit much longer in scope than the “Sahn Sao” and more linked togther. The best analogy for this is the concept of twins: twins can stand alone or together.
“Dui Da” on the other hand are actual two man sets that exist strictly as “two man sets” (i.e. there are no solo versions and they are always practised with a partner, never solo). Examples of these are Toe Fah Sahn and Tao Dzeep. The best analogy for this is the concept of siamese twins: They can never be separated but are always together, forever joined.
Then the last is free sparring. We encourage the student at this stage to use whatever he has been taught in whatever combinations that follow the Mantis theories. We do not use “kick boxing” methods when free sparring unless it is a lesson on “this is a what you could possibly do to respond to a kick boxer”. In this situation, one side would be doing kick boxing moves while the other side would always use Mantis theories on attack and defense. Otherwise, both sides use Mantis theories. To use kick boxing techniques in a non instructional situation would be considered a devolution or dissolution of the art.
As you can see, it is a logical progression from assorted techniques to complete solo forms, then to solo forms which extend to two-man forms and then only two-man forms. We don’t dump a student in the deep end of the pool and expect them to sink or swim because without the repetitive training to condition reflexes, at the first flood of adrenaline, all training flies out the window and students revert to whatever is instinctive to them. As such, a student might as well not bother to learn any martial art and take up knitting instead for all the good it will do them. However, if the student’s reflexes are repetitively conditioned such that offensive moves from an opponent elicit some appropriate reaction based on Mantis theories at an instinctive level to replace the instinctive reaction that was there BEFORE learning Mantis (e.g. cowering in fear or just wading into an attack swinging wildly, etc), then the student can be said to have truly absorbed the Praying Mantis style. And that is our philosophy.
Hope this helps clarify the matter somewhat.
That answers my question. Thanks. There aren’t any clips of mantis students doing this type of sparring that you know of are there?
Originally posted by yu shan
This to me is a stupid thread started by a non-CMA practioner. Unfortunately, Mantis schools here are not “all” being taught the fighting theory. Shr ZhengZhong of Tainan, Taiwain is passing on the true treasures through Pong Lai Wu Ji Praying Mantis.
lol you tell 'em yu shan.
I disagree with yu shan.
This thread is a good thread, one worthy of discussion.
When I was with my mantis teacher, we didn’t do any special push hands drills or anything like that. He threw me into the ring and I got beat up by a boxer who was a foot taller than me. I was trying to use strictly mantis techniques.
But there was one move where I got him. We were in the clinch and I grabbed him. Literally by Beng Bo instinct, my knee automatically went into his groin. I was horrified because that wasn’t part of the rules, and I apologized profusely. Luckily, my opponent was very gracious.
Since then, I’ve had time to practice my Mantis. Now I can spar with it in various settings. The seven-star monkey step has been particularly valuable, as I’m a small guy who likes to flit around. That’s not to say that the horse stance doesn’t help either.
For me, I have a similar mentality to a Western boxer when I use Mantis. My moves are different, as are my targets, but I still dance around and bob and weave. I throw jabs, roundhouses, kicks, grappling - all.
I’d love to do a sparring demo of mantis for or against you, wiz cool c.
i have read alot of your posts and they seem far fetched. are you a real person or a made up character like ashida kim?
I fail to correspond with " I was horrified because that wasn`t part of the rules" Rules with fighting??? What F’N rules! Luckily my opponent was gracious… good luck in your future and this peace-nik attitude towards FIGHTING! Get some b*lls!
Ah, yu shan, cut him some slack. He obviously meant “contact sparring with a few rules”, not “plain fighting”.
I have a serious question for you: “Do you find that your training is making you a more agressive person?” Please answer w/out profanity, if possible.
Response to wiz cool c
You’re welcome.
I’m afraid I don’t know of any clips of two man sets. But that doesn’t mean they don’t exist out there somewhere.
One thing I always feared when training is when i would lose control. When we spar it is controlled. But when I lose control especially due to alcohol i tend to be pretty scary. As I am comitted to continue training in 7* I plan on giving up alcohol completely. I am worried that one day I may hurt someone due to my training and my drunken stupor. This is especially hard when you are 22 and are at the prime of partying…