What are the traditional 18 forms taught within the 7* Preying Mantis System?
No sure, we have 80+…
Paul
Paul: and you believe they are all traditional? :o
Depneds what you mean by traditonal I guess…
80 + is a new one to me. With whom do you train?
Jake
PS If you are interested in the traditional 18 check out my site in the mantis section www.threeharmonies.com
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;880264] the traditional 18 check out my site in the mantis section www.threeharmonies.com[/QUOTE]
I only saw your mention of beng bu, luan jie, and ba zhou.
Didn’t see the 18 forms.
Go to “styles” click on “Bei Tanglang”
The site is NOT easy to navigate. Hence me revamping the whole thing. Not sure when it will be done, but it will be much nicer!
Jake
I think what he meant was 18 styles or rather the 18 families, which we have covered over and over again on these boards. Besides there really isn’t anything that is formed by 18 forms unless of course it’s yet another Shaolin Do gimmick. 
Mantis108
I think mantis108 is on the right track here.
I was going to correct the question with the answer of the 18 styles some versions of mantis is made up of… not 18 forms taught, as many styles have thier own collection of forms and that number varies from family to family.
Seven Star Praying Mantis book had a pink page or pages. On this was eighteen something. They included proper names. I took, at first them to be styles as I thought of styles. To me style in Kung-Fu meant form or forms based on a theme.
I realized later that they were what I might call techniques–a move or a few moves done with particular function in mind. Like the Karate type move where the fist whirls around the other and pulls to the side of the body while the actual noted part --the fist, goes up to make a block.
That’s a technique. But it might be So-and-So’s Style of block. And when all moves are secret, sort-of=thing, a technique Now-a-days was a Style back then. Only a few moves were known to be used. All others while vital to the Teacher or the System, only the dead and the next instructor of the System got to know those.
So I was of the understanding that Seven Star (at least one something called Seven-Star Praying Mantis (Seven Star Tanglang–Seven Star because the insect had seven spots on it, the seven splotches were in a pattern seeming to be a dipper of the Northern sky, or they were saying this is a great Kung-Fu (Undefeatable (a cultural thing))))incorporated seventeen techniques from Well established or formidable people or Kung-Fus…seventeen techniques framed by the theme of preying mantis characteristics–not necessarily physical.
Two I am also called Two–Ehr-Ni, Two-You. It can mean twice as good as you But also Second to you. Seven Star seventeen techniques might have been performed in such a way that the arms are close and strong and the hands grab such that that could resemble a praying mantis. And the footwork could have resembled monkies. If these creaturs were around at the naming period for this Kung-Fu composite or Mixed Martial Art, perhaps, then it might have been stylized or fancified-ish and sold as being the strength of the insect intensified and personified. All the while masking the actual individual techniques that were actually being used.
Some-such-perhaps-some-might-say-some-such.
I No_Know
Thank You!!!
I am aware of the 18 different styles that Wang Lang used to created his Preying Mantis system, the 3 core sets created by Wang Lang and SD’s supposed / proposed 18 Original Forms.
Here is another question, what weapon sets have you all learned or know of within the 7*PMS?
And what about the Mook Jong Set ( Wooden Dummy Set)??
Weapons will all depend on the teacher and his/her previous experiences. In some cases a lot of the weapons from southern systems has been adopted. Too general a question bro.
Same with the wooden dummy, though that is even more specific to the CCK group I believe (Robert will chime in shortly I am sure, and he can help loads more than I).
I have known some Mantis cats who practice on the Mok jung, but the CCK group is the only group I know of that actually created a set.
Cheers
Jake
Thank you…
What weapons forms do you teach, Jake??
Well I teach them in private lessons only, my group class is reserved for combatives.
But over the years I have learned the Jian Ma Dao / Monks Spade / Dao / Staff / XY straight sword / Kuan Dao / Miao Dao and I know a little whip chain, though not a traditional form per se. I also trained 5 years with Remy Presas in stick and knife work, but again the forms were nothing to speak of.
Cheers
Jake
Thank you …
Which of these , if any, are mantis forms/ weapons??
Well bro, that is where many may disagree with me. What is a “Mantis Weapon”? There is no “Mantis” in a weapon because the weapon adheres to certain principles set forth by the weapon, and the ability of the human body. If I hook my hand a certain way does that make it “Mantis?” Know what I mean?
So I do not look at these as stylistic weapons, but rather weapons based on how that specific weapon is utilized.
I have learned the Jian Ma Dao from my teacher Hu Xi Lin, who learned from Ma Han Qin. All Mantis cats. But the form came from Ma’s understanding of the 108 weapons of Shaolin. I learned my Miao Dao from John Wang, but it certainly is NOT a Shuai Chiao weapon! I learned the Melon Hammers from Jochen Wolfgramm who was part of LKW Mantis group, but there is no mantis in it. See what I mean? I even learned some two handed sword from Wang Rengang, but again you would not look at it and go '" Oh yeah, I see the mantis"
Not sure this helps, but that is my 2 cents
Cheers
Jake
Thank you again…
I understand what you are saying. So there are no standardized weapon sets in the various mantis systems?? or at least in your’s and some others???
In mine, no. When I studied with Wutan, no. LKW I have heard, yes. Steve Cottrell and his group, and believe so. Pong Lai, not sure.
I agree with most of the argument that weapons are weapons and not mantis or Hung Gar but certain characteristics should come through. with the Melon Hammers I see most ofl the keywords and main techniques. Kwa, Fung etc. and the footwork can also show which style they come from. Choy Li fut forms compared to Mantis Forms are easy to distingush but it gets more dificult with cross polinated styles like North Shaolin/Mantis or Hung Gar/Choy Li Fut.
Paul
These are some of the main weapons of the TLQ families- Damo Jian, Baxian Jian, Qixing Jian, Tiangang Jian, Yuhuan Jian, Yanqing Dao, Yuhuan Dao, Liuhe Shuang Dao, Liuhe Gun, Taiyi Zijin Gun, Wulang Gun, Meihua Qiang, Liuhe Qiang, Qunqiu Dadao.
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