[QUOTE=chasincharpchui;815079]you guys must suk at ur gwa choi if its not in ur top 5
[/QUOTE]
never managed to get gwa to work as a primary strike against a skilled fighter. only as intercept for next move.
[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;814823]what about pek?[/QUOTE]
Over head Pek has never worked for me. Always seem to have get kicked in the stomack or hooked or jabbed in face, while hand is raised.:eek: .
Sau & Chap are the most beautiful CLF technique. alot more variations and a lot more practice then I thought. would love to palm pow for real but never had the opportunity, I have a feeling it really works.
[QUOTE=stout;815095]never managed to get gwa to work as a primary strike against a skilled fighter. only as intercept for next move.[/QUOTE]
gwa to the head knocks them out
gwa to the chest drops them right on the floor
do not underestimate the gwa choi, it is not just for intercepting
[QUOTE=stout;815104]Over head Pek has never worked for me. Always seem to have get kicked in the stomack or hooked or jabbed in face, while hand is raised.:eek: .
[/QUOTE]
that can be said for any technique. its all bout timing, knowing ur distance and use of angles
u can get, hooked, jabbed or kicked/punched in the stomach against a straight jab aswell, and punched in the face wen ur trying to kick.
if u can read ur opponent, then any of his techniques can be counted doesnt matter wat it is.
Your right about the gwa choy. There was a story told to us about one of our si suk gongs killing someone in Kwantung with a gwa choy. The guy was very stocky so I guess it is possible but again it was just a story.
[QUOTE=CLFNole;814965]Pek/Chin Si Choy to the collar bone[/QUOTE]
Is that the backhand strike? Sorry guys, I don’t know the names, just the moves. I saw LKH whack someone with that when they asked for the app at a seminar. Then, unbelievably, the guy next to him asked to be shown again so he got whacked. It hurt just watching it. I can’t believe he really wanted to get hit after seeing the first guys reaction.
I really like the simultaneous finger strike/instep kick (chin tui) as found in Jo Yau Biu Se Yi.
Would you believe George Dillman, at one of his seminars, said “nobody kicks and punches at the same time”.
Yao Sing:
Pek/Chin Si Choy is with the bottom part of the fist (think of a sow choy with the hand reversed if you don’t get the idea).
As far as the backhand strike you are talking about if sifu’s fist was clenched it would be a gwa choy. If it was an open palm it is called daat jeurng. And yeah I have been hit with it and it hurt.
[QUOTE=chasincharpchui;815117]gwa to the head knocks them out
gwa to the chest drops them right on the floor
do not underestimate the gwa choi, it is not just for intercepting
that can be said for any technique. its all bout timing, knowing ur distance and use of angles
u can get, hooked, jabbed or kicked/punched in the stomach against a straight jab aswell, and punched in the face wen ur trying to kick.
if u can read ur opponent, then any of his techniques can be counted doesnt matter wat it is.[/QUOTE]
Yes, yes, of course it would, I was just saying that while I have been trying to use gwa as a initial strike, it creates a rather big warning signal to your oponent for him to move away, as it’s quite visible. Then again lead strikes don’t often land. But honestly how often do you see, guys in CLF sports fight, who use gwa/pek land it?
I can think of a good example of when pek is good, pek to back or base of head when someone is shot forward and grab your waist.
Ok, after hearing everyone’s answers…
IN my opinion…
1st place is sow choy.…why? Because a sow choy can break your neck, and possibly kill you. The killing is arguable.
2nd would be CLF’s Elbows…why? Because we all know elbows and knees, can open up some real ugly wounds, including smashing.
3rd is Chop Choy to the neck..…why? CLF people know why! 
4th is Fu Jow…Why? Because a good tiger claw will maim you, not scratch you…fu jow can rip and tear at any fleshy area of the body causing tremendous pain.
5th is a 4 way tie…between Pek Choy, kwa choy, kup choy, and the butt of the fu jow right on the nose…why? because when aimed at the nose all will break the nose with a tremendous amount of damage.
pau is good
in hop ga we have a mid range hook thats also good
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;815226]
5th is a 4 way tie…between Pek Choy, kwa choy, kup choy, and the butt of the fu jow right on the nose…why? because when aimed at the nose all will break the nose with a tremendous amount of damage.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Fu Jow v painful when scraped in the face:D
Question - why would one choose to use kup, when you can sau? Cause its more of a fist strike, and kup presents a much bigger fist area? Maybe you just end up using Kup, when you can’t lift your arm anymore, cuase you are just so tired? You see Bruce Lee do it alot in fist of fury. I think he took that from CLF
I think it depends on the angle of the attack. If you are coming straight down say to finish off someone you possibly bent over with a side kick to the stomach for example, the cup choy might be a good choice to the back of the head if you were bringing your strike downward from high to low. But I agree in general one would prefer the sow to the cup, which is probably why sifu changed a few cups to sows in some of the forms.
Cool, never thought of Kup, after a side kick. Will try it! Gwa after a kick, has always been more natural from the forms.
[QUOTE=stout;815361]Yes, Fu Jow v painful when scraped in the face:D
Question - why would one choose to use kup, when you can sau? Cause its more of a fist strike, and kup presents a much bigger fist area? Maybe you just end up using Kup, when you can’t lift your arm anymore, cuase you are just so tired? You see Bruce Lee do it alot in fist of fury. I think he took that from CLF :D[/QUOTE]
Do you know how to use Kahp? I think if you did, you wouldn’t say that…
I was just using it as an example as it would probably be somewhat difficult to simply kick someone and follow with a cup you might have to use some other techniques first but to me cup is a finishing move rather than a lead move becuase you are exposed when executing it. It can work as a follow-up to a gwa choy by blocking down with the gwa choy, creating an opening and hitting with the cup choy. Very similar to gwa sow so it is really a personal preference. You can also modify the cup by shortening the arc and using the knuckles to come down on the bridge of the nose. We don’t use many cups in our line as I said sifu or one of sifu’s sifus (say that a few times) must have preferred sow choy instead.
[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;815375]Do you know how to use Kahp? I think if you did, you wouldn’t say that…[/QUOTE]
Well you obviousily don’t think I do. No, I haven’t trained much with the old Kup punch, so that pretty much disqualifies me as someone whos know anything about this.
Cheers Node with all that info, learn something new everyday. The only form I know which kup, has only kup swings during a retreat. And it’s very much applied like sau. So never really paid much attention to it, saw as it a varient to some good sau’ing. Was told once you could kup fist to back of ear for pain:D Do you find that once you launch a gaw/sau combo, you really have to just keep going? Especially if you really extend yourself?
Kup is not just used to strike the head area…
See, muscles are meant to repel. Try kup choy-ing someone at the top of their torso downwards…tearing at the flesh instead of striking it.
for some it may be hard to conceive, but if i were there in person, you’d see.
you can throw a kup at any target, it whether you strike or not.
if a guy throw a punch and i side stepped, i’d use a kup choy as my first technique…just not in offensive mode though.
Cheers Node with all that info, learn something new everyday. The only form I know which kup, has only kup swings during a retreat.
you can also apply the same technique going forward too.
something we must realize as CLF people, everything done with two hands can be done with one, and anything going in one direction can be so in opposite direction.
sorry,
but if you are fast enough, a kup choy travelling in the 12-6 direction is very fast and deceiving.
its really hard at times to see something coming in straight, especially when its up and over the back of someones head. very hard to see coming.
Wow we are getting some really good brainstorming going! What you say about thowing a kup at the target and hitting or scaping somewhere in the general area is good. It sounds like it’s more efficient for hitting something, somewhere directly infront of you.
[QUOTE=stout;815379]Well you obviousily don’t think I do. No, I haven’t trained much with the old Kup punch, so that pretty much disqualifies me as someone whos know anything about this.
Cheers Node with all that info, learn something new everyday. The only form I know which kup, has only kup swings during a retreat. And it’s very much applied like sau. So never really paid much attention to it, saw as it a varient to some good sau’ing. Was told once you could kup fist to back of ear for pain:D Do you find that once you launch a gaw/sau combo, you really have to just keep going? Especially if you really extend yourself?[/QUOTE]
Lama/Haap Ga/White Crane people use Kahp even more than CLF people use So Choih. Kahp really is a great technique. And it’s extememly versitile…not just in angles, but in application. Offensivley, defensively, to block and strike simultaneously, to intercept, advancing, retreating, to mirror, to destroy limbs, etc.
We use Kahp a fair amount in our CLF, (my Sifu may have favored it because it was so useful in the Lama style). But we do have a unique persective on how it’s used. I’m going to film some stuff over the weekend and on Monday I’ll post a clip about how we use Kahp. I’d rather just show everyone instead of talking so much online.
It you were to ask myself or my classmates, I think that we would all use kahp over so choih…when applicable. But like I said, I’d rather put my money where my mouth is and show everyone via video. Sounds good??