deleted…double post…
Terence,
Since you practice law, could you please help me to keep a copy of these Violent provoking statement which is targeted toward me for future use if needed.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=li hudson;946763]yada…yada…yada…
If you do not wish to disclose whether you’re coming or not to that seminar, leave it like that. No need to bring up law discussion.
I have no desire to post a personal threat. I have other things to do. If you feel that way, I feel sorry for you…
However, it was very interesting to see the clips how you and your Black Crane++(Ermei) was thrown up in the air by Andreas from Chi Sim. The most interesting part is that when you yell ‘that’s not wingchun…that’s not wingchun’… LOL:)
I wonder if there’s any other clips like that…[/QUOTE]
Hudson, did he mention anything like ‘court…court…’ as well when he was up in the air ? 
I have no problem with anyone disagree with me or even giving me negative critics. Since this is a discussion forum and disagreement and heated critics are expected.
However,
[B]
Provoking Violent toward me or any one is crossing the line of a discussion forum. That we need to keep a record as an evidence to be used in the court of law.
IE: if anything violent happen, those who provoking violent will be the first one to be investigate by court of Law.[/B]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;946769]I have no problem with anyone disagree with me or even giving me negative critics. Since this is a discussion forum and disagreement and heated critics are expected.
However,
Provoking Violent toward me or any one is crossing the line of a discussion forum. That we need to keep a record as an evidence to be used in the court of law.
IE: if anything violent happen, those who provoking violent will be the first one to be investigate by court of Law.[/QUOTE]
Hendrik,
When you A$$ flying up in the air like in that clip when you touch hand with GM Andreas from Chi Sim, The reason that it happened is not because some one is provoking GM A., But it is due to the only skill you have is internet keyboard kungfu fighting…
Please do a reality check on you… OK
[QUOTE=li hudson;946771]Hendrik,
When you A$$ flying up in the air like in that clip when you touch hand with GM Andreas from Chi Sim, The reason that it happened is not because some one is provoking GM A., But it is due to the only skill you have is internet keyboard kungfu fighting…
Please do a reality check on you… OK[/QUOTE]
Li hudson,
Whoever your real name is.
Here I inform you that whatever you said will be present as an evident in the court of law.
Let’s just hope that people discuss here in a civilized way and nothing happen to get the Court of Law involve.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;946772]Li hudson,
Whoever your real name is.
I advise you that whatever you said will be present as an evident in the court of law.
Let’s just hope nothing happen.[/QUOTE]
In the USA everyone is protected by law on their free speech and opinion as you said.
I do not hope something to happen to you.
and For the record, I will not be any part of it direct or indirectly if something like that ever happen…
But I can’t be responsible for your action or what you said. If someone other than me, got offended by your statement and want to settle it to you, that’s none of my concern…
I advise you that whatever you said will be present as an evident in the court of law as well.
Let’s just hope nothing happen.
But if it does, it would be something very interesting to see for all of us just like on the clip I found when your A$$ were flying up in the air when you touch hand with GM. A. + your moaning of ‘that’s not wing chun…that’s not wing chun…’ I still LOL every time I remember it…
Also if anyone found that clip again(had been deleted), please post it here or PM me if that’s considered to be inappropriate.
[QUOTE=li hudson;946773]In the USA everyone is protected by law on their free speech and opinion as you said.
I do not hope something to happen to you…
[/QUOTE]
[B]
There is a different between free speech and Provoking Violent intentionally towards others.
As an evident in this thread,
Originally Posted by peacefull
Although I like peaceful, I think I have to agree with Li Hudson.
One day, someone might step up and demand your responsibility for saying things like that.
I hope your mother can still recognize you when that happen
Peacefull has echo your Provoking in his post; which is Provoking more Violent towards me in a Graphical illustration.
As I have inform you above, your posts will be used in the court of law.
and lets hope nothing happen. [/B]
Hendrik,
Why are you so paranoid over someone asking if you are attending a seminar?
You can simply answer yes or no and that would be enough.
As far as the insult that is implied in the way you weight your historical evidence, that is probably accurate. If there are two sources, and you say “1 is true - case closed”, then that is your opinion. However others do not share your opinion, and if your opinion completely contradicts many others historical evidence, and you say “case closed” then you are being close-minded towards other evidence. You may expect that others may want to show you contradictory evidence, and may not be extemely friendly about it.
So drop the lawsuit act and simply state your facts with sources.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;946776]Hendrik,
Why are you so paranoid over someone asking if you are attending a seminar?
You can simply answer yes or no and that would be enough…[/QUOTE]
Wayfaring,
If I may asked, are you and Li and Peacefull belongs to the same group?
People can discuss , or ask me to clarify my ideas, and argue with me with different reasoning…etc in a civil way because this is a discussion forum.
However,
By evidence,
It is an intentionally violent provoking post and then echo by another even more amplified graphical violent provoking post.
It has crossed the line, this is an un acceptable behaviour towards any one in public.
Thus, Sandman2 and Terence (since he practiced law) need to be aware of this matter in case a report is needed to be filed.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;946777]Wayfaring,
If I may asked, are you and Li and Peacefull belongs to the same group?
People can discuss , or ask me to clarify my ideas, and argue with me with different reasoning…etc in a civil way because this is a discussion forum.
However,
By evidence,
It is an intentionally violent provoking post and then echo by another even more amplified graphical violent provoking post.
It has crossed the line, this is an un acceptable behaviour towards any one in public.
Thus, Sandman2 and Terence (since he practiced law) need to be aware of this matter in case a report is needed to be filed.[/QUOTE]
Dude, I don’t know Wayfaring.
Don’t be paranoid.
You are so pathetic. Get a life !
[QUOTE=Hendrik;946746]Go a head,
Share with us your CREDIBLE history,
make an introduction on who you are , who is your sifu, what is your lineage, and a multiple source verifiable tracking to 1850 on your lineage.
Until then you dont have a Credible position . That is reality.[/QUOTE]
Unlike you, I have no interest to use my theory/speculation about the origin of WCK as the Truth to debunk every other lineage that doesn’t share the same history.
You need to RESPECT other lineage.
Reality?? Tell you what is the reality; You are not a credible historian to say that your theory of CLF+Black Crane+Ermei as the truth regardless where my position is…That’s the reality…
Shing73,
Why do you keep deleting my posting while I am trying to point out that hendrik statement can not be taken as truth as he’s not an expert historian nor he has any credibility as a real historian…
As a moderator you should not be in anyone’s sides.:mad:
my guess, you probably will delete this post as well, to cover the ‘truth’.
Maybe I need start posting how black crane+CLF+ermei as the true origin of wck so that you stop deleting my post.:rolleyes:
If anyone could simply step back from their identification with history and realize its not a stab to a lineage or tradition if we use critical judgement and try to analyze for objective truth.
For example, in Complete Wing Chun, it was said in the Pan Nam branch of WCK, that WCK is composed of Tai Ji, Tang Lang, Ying Jow, and Gum Gong Jeung. Upon analysis, we find that Tai Ji was undergoing development at the same time WCK was, so it is unlikely that it was used in the creation of WCK. There is no Tang Lang (Mantis) in WCK, despite a similarity to Southern Mantis. There are no Ying Jow (Eagle Claw) maneuvers, and especially since Ying Jow is primarily a Northern Fist, it does not resemble WCK, although there is a Southern Eagle Claw system… And finally, Gum Gong Jeung is a Shaolin art akin to iron palm - is that WCK? Its not a disrespect to Pan Nam or the followers, but rather it is questioning and analytically look at the claims.
Pao Fa Lien WCK is said to be derived fro a rare “Northern internal system”. What does that mean? Does that mean it is Tai Ji, Xing Yi or Ba Gua? Does that mean WCK is Northern? Does WCK look like northern fist? Or does that mean PFL WCK looks like Northern fist? These are questions one has to look at.
Hendrik’s presentation needs to be examined as well. There are at least members of the Chan Family who can ascertain and verify certain stories floating around…these are clues to look up and research. Its a first step. These at least are better than “take my word for it”, “secret”, etc., which cast doubt and suspicion…albeit intentionally or not intentionally (but if one believe in “karma”)…
…it seems the myth of the Fujian Shaolin is one of those stories we have to take with a grain of salt…along with the Hung Fa Ting and 5 elders…
A mainland documentary showed there were 3 possible locations for the Fujian Shaolin, but not sure…
…so who burned it, or is it just myth?
If you ask Stanley Henning, he asserts that the Fujian Shaolin temple was a myth invented by the Heaven and Earth Society as a recruitment gimmick. So I’d take it that the true scholarly research settles on this since there is no evidence whatsoever for a South Shaolin Temple, but that the myth has persisted due ignorant books, pulp novels, and texts on the subject. And not forgetting people who want to make money from it including tourism.
Thank you Simon!
The idea is to get the WCK community to realize this.
WCK could not come from the Shaolin temple.
Henning’s article “Thoughts on Yongchun Boxing” published in Classical Fighting Arts is worth reading and sheds some possible light on the origins of Wing Chun, including a connection to General Qi Jiguang’s 32 forms which had ‘short hitting’ as its core.
He also notes that a work called “Min (Fujian) Short Sketches” written in the 1600’s by Zhou Lianggong references ‘baida’ or barehanded hitting as a custom in Fujian, and that this piece also notes that this was also known as Duanda ‘short hitting’.
There are a number of interesting points raised in the article, in particular an entry in the Yong Chun County Gazetteer, a historical document written in the 1600’s that references a woman called Ding Number Seven, who moved to Yong Chun with her husband and who taught a man called Zheng Li.
Henning notes that “Strange Tales From the Studio of Small Talk” was written at roughly the same period and contains a story that could have been the inspiration for the story of Wu Mei Dashi (Ng Mui) who first appeared in a late 19th century novel entitled Qianlong Tours The South (although he notes that Ng Mui may have already been a part of Heaven and Earth Mythology by that point).
There are more little asides and notes that make for a very interesting read.
RC,
This is who Chen Hueng was and what is his influence in the 1850, and the relationship to the Taiping and Dien Dei Hui from opium war to the down fall of Taiping and fleet to San Francisco…
1839-18401845
1853
1856
Here is another source on Chen Heung and Jee Shim who is his Sigung
1823
All of these are not to far away to be traced, and with Chen Heung, the Shang Hai uprising of Siau Dao Hui, and Lee Man-Mao’s Taiping-Dein De Hui story…etc. we can now see what is very possible happen in canton that period of time in a big picture and what happen in the Red Boat opera in term of Uprising.
As for the DNA of SLT, we need to look into ancient Kuen Po to identify the mother art.
The uprising involvement and the DNA of SLT are two differents tracks.
I dont speak for others but Evidentally, in Yik Kam WCK lineage, both the two tracks are consitance with the chinese ancient records. so we now know more what happen in the Sec of Red Boat opera where Yik Kam was.
Since you are close to the Chen family, check with them, CLF has a very good record system which can trace back.
[QUOTE=SimonW;946954]Henning’s article “Thoughts on Yongchun Boxing” published in Classical Fighting Arts is worth reading and sheds some possible light on the origins of Wing Chun, including a connection to General Qi Jiguang’s 32 forms which had ‘short hitting’ as its core.
He also notes that a work called “Min (Fujian) Short Sketches” written in the 1600’s by Zhou Lianggong references ‘baida’ or barehanded hitting as a custom in Fujian, and that this piece also notes that this was also known as Duanda ‘short hitting’.
There are a number of interesting points raised in the article, in particular an entry in the Yong Chun County Gazetteer, a historical document written in the 1600’s that references a woman called Ding Number Seven, who moved to Yong Chun with her husband and who taught a man called Zheng Li.
Henning notes that “Strange Tales From the Studio of Small Talk” was written at roughly the same period and contains a story that could have been the inspiration for the story of Wu Mei Dashi (Ng Mui) who first appeared in a late 19th century novel entitled Qianlong Tours The South (although he notes that Ng Mui may have already been a part of Heaven and Earth Mythology by that point).
There are more little asides and notes that make for a very interesting read.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I just read that work. I think there might have been a misprint of the surname “Ding” from “Fang” - it illustrates the story of Fang Qi Niang, legendary founder of Fujian White Crane. Zheng was a disciple of White Crane…the article is still on the newstand at the local Border’s or Barnes and Noble…it pretty much confirms how the myth of Yim Wing Chun was perhaps copied/changed from the story of Fang Qi Niang.
Hendrik,
For those of us who only read English could you provide a translation??