Time in

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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Time

How comes many 4 to 10 years old pianists can play very difficult repertoire in concert and others can barely sit on the bench?..
Is it the teacher?..Is it the time?..(No,there was hardly any)…Is it the method?..Who really knows?..
Personnal talent is a factor for sure but there is more. The faculty to digest informations is an important factor non dictated by time schedules or contraints.The faculty of a Sifu to feel when his student is ready for some new things to digest.The capacity of a Sifu to explain his subject in an practical and common sense way.Private lessons?..The willingness by the Sifu to share his knowledge.The student hability to make his Sifu’s teaching “his own”.The student’s natural fighting inclinations; is he agressive,counter striker,affraid of being hit,perfectionnist,silent shadow in the corner,just happy of being able to punch holes into faces?..
For all these reasons and countless ones I can’t think about right now,I believe time is irrelevant.

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black and blues sez:

Type Old Jong and Yuenfen… you know you want to.

Not really— am really fairly self effacing…I am still trying to understand the sil lim tao- one day I will get it down pat.

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RR - "See, what people are calling “soft/internal” a lot here isn’t always useful, especially not in the beginning (first few months or years for some). And what people are calling “hard/external” a lot isn’t always useful, especially when you get old or sick or find yourself facing someone with better attributes. "

This is very true Renee! I know the EBMAS school down the street can make you a fighter in about a year but it isnt attainable by everyone. We train more internally and so have to put in more time before we are ready. I think the internal aspect has more potential for growth as it can continue to grow after your strength ebbs, but it takes more patience and isn’t instantly available.

Old Jong - excellent points!

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Let’s all make our Wing Chun path a timeless journey!..:wink: :smiley:

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I am up for it! :slight_smile: Thats one of the reasons I chose wingchun over other arts, its much more reasonable to be doing it in old age then some and so the potential for understanding is higher!

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r5a - My point was you need both, otherwise soft growth might be cut off and hard beginings might get broken later on. WCK, IMHO, doesn’t favor extremes, but the balance of the center.

RR

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I agree, although I forgot to mention it in the last post! I dont think it is possible to study chinese MA without experiencing a little of both.

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One thing is for sure!

Everybody is going to be “old” for a lot longer time than they will be young!..(Provided you are in good health and suffer no accident)
The shorter part of life is the young years. They might seem slower to go through because they are few and without reference but it is only a “relativity effect”
We could train in a hard sport like Muay Thai or whatever for a few years or…Learn something more valuable for the more realistic life and years ahead…(The present for me!)
But,I see nothing wrong in Rene’s views about being a little “external” when young and strong.It is practical and fast to learn but age will surely force anybody into the more suttle realms of Wing Chun!..

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Re: Time

Originally posted by old jong
How comes many 4 to 10 years old pianists can play very difficult repertoire in concert and others can barely sit on the bench?..
Is it the teacher?..Is it the time?..(No,there was hardly any)…Is it the method?..Who really knows?..
Personnal talent is a factor for sure but there is more. The faculty to digest informations is an important factor non dictated by time schedules or contraints.

spot on Old Jong.

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Re: Time in

Originally posted by red5angel

Exactly how much time does it take for one to ‘understand’ the art? We can break it down to hours, that will be sufficient, unless of course you have counted the minutes as well? Maybe seconds?
How much practice does it take to really get it?

Hi Red5Angel,

In your own lineage, you can read the training curriculum of Ben Der and Ken Chung at http://www.bawcsa.org/
under the link, “Training.”

The progression assumes diligent study.

Even in this list of training times, the “final” section of skills takes an indeterminate length of time. I count 44 months plus the indeterminate time already mentioned for introduction of all skills. To get where Ben and Ken are, assume that it will take you a lot longer, because the final stage is much more esoteric than simple skills. The secret is still to work hard and consistently with a good teacher and equally diligent fellow practitioners.

Regards,

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I think that is just time to assimilate the information, it may take much longer to really get what it is you are learning, in any course you take, but in this case martial arts in general. Going through Kens entire cirriculum wont guarentee you anything unless like you say Grendel you are diligent in your practice and attentive in class.

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Re: Re: Time in

Originally posted by Grendel
[B]
Hi Red5Angel,

In your own lineage, you can read the training curriculum of Ben Der and Ken Chung at http://www.bawcsa.org/
under the link, “Training.”

The progression assumes diligent study.

Even in this list of training times, the “final” section of skills takes an indeterminate length of time. I count 44 months plus the indeterminate time already mentioned for introduction of all skills.
[/B]

And wrt Ken, even that curriculum is on the “fast track.” As he discussed with a group of us, and I recently mentioned in another thread, in an “ideal world” we would spend 3 years on the first set alone. But of course, none of us has the patience for it. Or at least rare few. :slight_smile:

[B]

To get where Ben and Ken are, assume that it will take you a lot longer, because the final stage is much more esoteric than simple skills. The secret is still to work hard and consistently with a good teacher and equally diligent fellow practitioners.
[/B]

If I may add, when speaking of titles, ranks, and the like, even Ken calls himself a ‘humble student of Wing Chun,’ shunning even the title of “Sifu.” I also hope to remain a student whose learning is never finished.

For me, it’s not how much I know or how quickly. It’s rather how deeply I can understand and apply it that matters.

Regards,

  • Kathy Jo
33

Hi KJ,

My sigung, if memory serves, commented on it taking roughly 3 years to get the Saam Pai Faat (Tan, Wu, Fook section) down in terms of relaxation, root, path, and power. My sifu once said add another year, at least, for the rest of the set 8). (Back when he was learning, though, it was PRC schedule and he had lots of time to practice - no bloody cell phones or pagers either :wink:

RR

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Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Hi KJ,
My sigung, if memory serves, commented on it taking roughly 3 years to get the Saam Pai Faat (Tan, Wu, Fook section) down in terms of relaxation, root, path, and power. My sifu once said add another year, at least, for the rest of the set 8). (Back when he was learning, though, it was PRC schedule and he had lots of time to practice - no bloody cell phones or pagers either :wink:

RR [/B]

Refreshing to know there are like-minded others, with patience enough to savor the details, and skill which can only be earned through time and effort. It’s easy to overlook the tortoise when the rabbits are scurrying about.

As my Grandmother used to say “The hurrier I go, the behinder I get.” :slight_smile:

Regards,

  • Kathy Jo
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Does that saying have something to do with quantum gravity?

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Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
Does that saying have something to do with quantum gravity?

Indeed it does.

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If KJ has quantified gravity she should get the nobel prize! Or her grandmother anyway!

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Ha! I knew it!

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“It’s not the years, it’s the hours”

This, paraphrased from Emin Boztepe, seems to reflect a lot of what r5a is saying that the not everyone spends one year the same way. And of course, with OldJong’s comment on the quality of your teachers and classmates.

For me, I was training 2-4 hours a days every day for 3 years with my Sifu in Taiwan. Of course, there were days when I was sick or injured, or on vacation, but those were quite minimal. Even on vacation I would practice the forms. Maybe 80% of the class was chi-sao; the other 20% was forms and applications. My Sifu teaches roughly one form a year to regular students, one form every half year to private students; the progression generally depends on execution of movements and ideas from the forms in chi-sao. However, he doesn’t exactly spell things out for you.

Now I lead a group of people in training in the US, which I have done for 4 years now; for the first year, I was also learning a different approach to Wing Chun, as well as continuing with my Sifu’s lineage under his son. Currently, I train an average of 3 hours a day, though I usually take days off on the weekend (married life tends to do that). I found that teaching has really helped me improve my understanding of Wing Chun, though I certainly don’t understand it completely; I’m always discovering interesting little things in the forms and applications-- whether that is by visiting other schools, or reading articles, or seeing people’s experiences on forums, or, on the rare occasion, figuring something out myself.

I think part of the teaching process is taking motions that your body understands and trying to articulate that with words so that someone else can understand it. How I view Wing Chun as a unified system has really come into being over these last years AWAY from my Sifu, when he wasn’t around to answer my questions.

How long it takes you to understand the basics (i.e., principles and their interpretation to create a functional whole) probably depends on your instructor, the quality of your classmates, your own retrospection and insight. I think that if you are smart, put in time, think about things, and have a decent instructor, you could probably get the basics down in a year.

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Cheers guys and girls

Thanks for the replies to my bit of the thread.

I’m very new to this art, and so it’s good to hear what others are doing, how they’ve progressed, etc.

Yuanfen: I think everyone on this forum would say they are still trying to get SNT right :wink: , but despite this, some have, naturally, started learning the other forms. I just wondered how long your route had been.

Old Jong: Of course there are many variables to be considered. But hey, if you don’t want to tell me how long it took you to learn the forms, that’s cool I guess. :rolleyes:

I have two instructors - one of whom has 11 years in WC. During these years he’s learnt all three hand forms, dummy, and weapons… so I was just wondering what others had learnt in their years of training.

I train 6 hours per week in class, and try to do an hour per day on my own (footwork, stance, punching, first form, kicks). I don’t know the dummy form, but have built a dummy and practise basics (ie. bong/lap, tan da, stepping) on it. I’ve learnt the first form and been shown the first section of the second form (purely to allow me to work on turning). I’ve been doing Dan Chi Sau for a few months and been shown Poon Sau, which I practice in private lessons.

In all I train 12-14 hours a week and have a private lesson once every fortnight. I’ve been training for about 18 months. A Wing Chun virgin, as it were.

:slight_smile: