If you dont learn wing chun in 5 years, if you are dedicated, your si fu is using you for some other stuff… 
[QUOTE=Jox;1227097]If you dont learn wing chun in 5 years, if you are dedicated, your si fu is using you for some other stuff… :)[/QUOTE]
Or you are hopeless and should take up something else
Sometimes I think no matter how much I learn I display ‘hopeless’, LOL 
Rather like my tennis - after years and years of playing, I still have a tendency to double-fault, hit backhands long, believe my game at the net is far more advanced than it actually is, etc. 
[QUOTE=BPWT;1227105]Sometimes I think no matter how much I learn I display ‘hopeless’, LOL
Rather like my tennis - after years and years of playing, I still have a tendency to double-fault, hit backhands long, believe my game at the net is far more advanced than it actually is, etc. ;)[/QUOTE]
Well said. You may be able to learn and “know” the whole system in five years, but how well you can actually apply it varies tremendously. For me, it is my life’s work just to be “passably good”. But as you pointed out, the same could be said of most who play tennis, golf, or strive to become good at any other activity. True champions are not just trained, they are born for their sport.
Knowing a curriculum is not an indicator of skill.
Done But Never Finished
One should be “proficient” in five years, just as one should understand the basics of a major after five years of college, but when does one really know the system?
Done but never finished…
[QUOTE=Vernon;1227479]One should be “proficient” in five years, just as one should understand the basics of a major after five years of college, but when does one really know the system?
Done but never finished…[/QUOTE]
That is what I thought… Done but not finished…
The problem in my opinion is, if not done in 10, 15 or 20 years… 
[QUOTE=Jox;1227097]If you dont learn wing chun in 5 years, if you are dedicated, your si fu is using you for some other stuff… :)[/QUOTE]
Money mostly
How do you define learning Wing Chun? I mean you should learn the basic principles and idioms of Wing Chun in the first month. Forms, drills, and chi sao will come slowly after that. If that’s how you define learning Wing Chun, then yes. You should learn the curriculum in less time than 5 years. But there’s a big difference between learning a curriculum and learning/mastering Wing Chun. You never stop learning. In fact you should never think “I’ve got it now!” You should only think in terms of improving. The minute you start thinking you’ve got it figured out, you’ll stop trying.
Only in the name of ‘development’
[QUOTE=Jox;1227097]If you dont learn wing chun in 5 years, if you are dedicated, your si fu is using you for some other stuff… :)[/QUOTE]
I’ve learnt ‘Sil Lum Tao’ and its developments within five to seven years, because I knew that I couldn’t pass his test and requirements, and he didn’t speak English that well at all, but through the years I was able to understand him with the help of his grandson ‘Victor’ (learnt to understand Cantonese but did not speak it as well as I should).
I’d tried to pass his test but physically I was unable to do so, because I kept butting self in the way of development, but only catered to the movements and not a strong sense of structural awareness, structural integrity, and structural sensibility (from a stance point of view), which only stressed out my progress and hindered years of development (years of hard work which only developed into nothing).
I’d truly through if he could do it that I could as well, but through the years of development I’d came to the realization that it did not work that way at all.
Take care,
But, without a strong sense or understanding of Sil Lum Tao, all of the other systems would be way too much to process. ‘Sli Lum Tao’ is the seed and a weak seed will bring nothing but bad fruit.
Take care,
2 years is plenty of time to learn all the content of Wing Chun.
3 empty hand forms that are progressive in learning. One adds to the next, very simple butterfly knives set or 8 cut knives as they are known as in WC, a pole form that is fairly simple and some work on the dummy depending on who you learned from.
It is a small distilled system that is intended to be learned and used in as short a time line as possible. That is the utility of it.
having said that, it is interesting to see people conspiring to remove the utilitarian value of WC by adding in tons of non WC stuff to it, attributing all sorts of things to it that are strictly personal or culturally based and so on.
It’s a good, short timeline style to learn but I would say 5 years is even too long. 5 years for clf or hg maybe because of all the different forms and the extra stuff, multiple weapons etc etc etc.
WC is supposed to be simple and direct.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1228420]2 years is plenty of time to learn all the content of Wing Chun.
3 empty hand forms that are progressive in learning. One adds to the next, very simple butterfly knives set or 8 cut knives as they are known as in WC, a pole form that is fairly simple and some work on the dummy depending on who you learned from.
It is a small distilled system that is intended to be learned and used in as short a time line as possible. That is the utility of it.
having said that, it is interesting to see people conspiring to remove the utilitarian value of WC by adding in tons of non WC stuff to it, attributing all sorts of things to it that are strictly personal or culturally based and so on.
It’s a good, short timeline style to learn but I would say 5 years is even too long. 5 years for clf or hg maybe because of all the different forms and the extra stuff, multiple weapons etc etc etc.
WC is supposed to be simple and direct.[/QUOTE]
Good grief David-of course you like many have an opinion.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1228420]2 years is plenty of time to learn all the content of Wing Chun.[/QUOTE]
Two years to finish all of the contents within the wing chun system, very interesting post. Maybe if Id paid him money instead of being one of his many employees (prep cook) at two of his restaurants, I wouldve developed a lot faster?
Id trained three days a week while in SIL Lum Tao (with my sifu) and I had no idea that Ive should of been developed in that level of the system within four months of time to go on to the next; being that its a six form system, again very interesting.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1228423]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good grief David-of course you like many have an opinion.[/QUOTE]
My opinion is formed by direct observation and participation.
It is a small system, You can have it for your whole life like anything else, but truly, if you are still in the “learning” instead of “doing” stages 5 years on, you are either incapable of learning or very slow at it, too lazy to practice or indeed, someone is taking you for a ride.
Otherwise, WC is a good style. I was merely addressing the post.
It only took me that long because I’d tried to pass to the next level without development and failed, and I chose to start over with a different mindset to find out way I failed (being honest to myself), but altogether, it would’ve took me about three years or -so in ‘Sli Lum Tao’.
Never enough!
Depending on how often in a week you train and your commitment, you could learn the complete system probably in three to five years. VT is a closed system and like a dancer remembers a choreography, so can anyone learn the sequence of the forms by heart. Practitioning VT however is a comlete other story!
When I started, the shool I trained at, had a training scheme of half an hour physical training, then an hour of forms and technique training and the final last hour semi-contact sparring. In six to seven years (slow learner :D) I knew all the forms, but could not apply all of it during sparring. In a way, thesparring slowed me down from ‘getting’ it because the pressure of sparring didn’t allow for the development of fine skills. It took another sifu (WSL and PB) to point out the flaws in our system and emphasise thedevelopment of the finer skills of VT. In a way we had to start all over again! Rethinking the basics I suppose. Nowadays, after nearly 15 years I started training again, three years now, I still have to evaluateeverything I learned. In my opinion this process will never stop! With all the possibilities in Chi Sao, sparring and fighting you will always think of how you could have performed better and more efficient. VT is like chess. The rules are simple, the possibilies are however endless and you always need to improve yourself. Maybe it’s even like golf, where your opponent is you! :rolleyes:
I hear what you’re saying, but each form is a precursor of development, so why push yourself through the system only to start over, when each form before the next should only be a reference of understanding for the next stage of development?
Take care,
I don’t think you should force your way through the forms at all! This was just the way I learned the system over the years.
My point is that even with knowledge of the forms, comprehension and apreciation comes later, when pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
Isn’t this the case with every learning method? In University, you also kinda crash course through all the subjects. Comprehension comes later in application, otherwise it is all virtual knowledge.
[QUOTE=Robadob;1228466]My point is that even with knowledge of the forms, comprehension and apreciation comes later, when pieces of the puzzle fall into place. [/QUOTE]
This is why it is important to develop through each level of the system, to take away the mystery or the frame of mind dealing with puzzling thoughts that may arrive in ones future development/understanding.
[QUOTE=Robadob;1228466]In University, you also kinda crash course through all the subjects. Comprehension comes later in application, otherwise it is all virtual knowledge. [/QUOTE].
Yes, but only to become familiar with one’s future occupation. I wouldnt want a dentist to give me a root canal before a strong understanding/comprehension of application.
Take care,