[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047636]tion.
Now…where did I leave my keys…)[/QUOTE]
Which was more evidence of cluelessness and bad teaching.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047662]OMG LOL we arent going there again are we? LOL talk about the last 20 years. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, that was where you advocated standing motionless in stances for 10 minutes at a time. More evidence of your crap traditional teaching.
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-159.html
david, and back then you noticed who the people were who dont train thier legs… because anyone I asked to do 5 pistols couldnt… isnt this were we came up with the saying armchair kung fu? guys who cant do what others train daily for? poke fun of those who can…
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047719]david, and back then you noticed who the people were who dont train thier legs… because anyone I asked to do 5 pistols couldnt… isnt this were we came up with the saying armchair kung fu? guys who cant do what others train daily for? poke fun of those who can…[/QUOTE]
LOL @ the loser who puts me on ignore, reads my posts, then responds to them as if he is responding to another poster.
When I started TCMA, every year we had a tournament, every school in chinatown competed. I never really understood the rules, but I later realised it was San Da. No knees or elbows, but your could throw. 8oz gloves, box, mouthguard.
Winners from Sydney went to Melbourne and fought the other winners there for National Championship. This was the days of the Lacy brothers in Perth, Chen yong Fa in Sydney, Chan Hak Fu in Sydney, William Cheung (sp? the wing chun Sifu) in Melbourne, and many other ‘immigrated’ HK masters.
Some matches were brawls, some were battles, and some were elegant. There were enough knockouts and tko’s to guarantee it was full on.
We sparred heavy in class, and trained up a couple of months in advance for the tournament. You represented, lots of plain club boys stepped up for the tournament, it wasn’t just specialists.
It came to an end around 92 when the local sporting authority decided they wanted a piece of the action, and deemed it was ‘boxing’, laid all kinds of rules and requirements on it, bigger gloves, headgear, ambulances, doctors, liability insurance increases, you get the idea.
The last year they lost all the money they had saved over decades trying to make it work. Not like they had much, it was just a ‘gentlemens club’ that ran the event anyway…
I was pretty handy then. Better than most, but not the best. I have another lifetime of training on top of that now. My experience is that there was more, and for want of a better explanation, it turned me from being a butcher to a surgeon.
And I’m still pretty handy, better than most, but not the best.
As for forms:
In pak mei, we do our forms like wind sprints. Full on into oxygen debt (depending on fitness of course) and recovery. That’s good training.
The fact it combines this training with techniques is rather unique. I don’t know of any other art that blasts their forms like we do. I’ve seen the same speed and power in other arts, mind you, just not in the everyday practice of the forms.
We have a principle, no ‘walk throughs’ unless you are a buck novice.
But forms are just a warm up. A refresher in fundamentals before every training session. Of course, some people have more to refresh than others…
People who worship forms are no different than people that worship fighting. They make their choice and settle into that space.
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1047726]When I started TCMA, every year we had a tournament, every school in chinatown competed. I never really understood the rules, but I later realised it was San Da. No knees or elbows, but your could throw. 8oz gloves, box, mouthguard.
Winners from Sydney went to Melbourne and fought the other winners there for National Championship. This was the days of the Lacy brothers in Perth, Chen yong Fa in Sydney, Chan Hak Fu in Sydney, William Cheung (sp? the wing chun Sifu) in Melbourne, and many other ‘immigrated’ HK masters.
[/QUOTE]
YC
Cool. You must know Mick Spinks, Chan Cheuk Fai etc. Are you talking about the matches that were held at Town Hall and morphed into WKA events? I competed there once in 1991 but already the rules at that event were 5 kicks above the waist min rule. What school were you fighting for?
Cheers,
BT
Yum-
old school. lol
]
I bet there are a lot of guys who have shared that or a similar experience in their terrible flimsy traditinal training. :rolleyes: 
[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1047788]YC
Cool. You must know Mick Spinks, Chan Cheuk Fai etc. Are you talking about the matches that were held at Town Hall and morphed into WKA events? I competed there once in 1991 but already the rules at that event were 5 kicks above the waist min rule. What school were you fighting for?
Cheers,
BT[/QUOTE]
Don’t know Mick, but Chan Cheuk Fai is still doing his thing with the Double Dragon open nights. One of my boys got thrown out, and Sifu had to send over a bottle of whiskey to apologise… So, we haven’t had a lot to do with them in awhile, other than around the Chinatown circuit.
91 was the last one I remember, at the Entertainment Centre. Had all the guys in from PNG? I fought for Yau Kung Mun in 87, 80kg runner-up. I think I still have the programme.
Tunks, do I know you? You train with Corney, and up at the Junction with that Russian kid?
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1047790]Yum-
old school. lol
]
I bet there are a lot of guys who have shared that or a similar experience in their terrible flimsy traditinal training. :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]
Hey, I think we have lawyers to blame as much as wimpy sifus…
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1047816]Don’t know Mick, but Chan Cheuk Fai is still doing his thing with the Double Dragon open nights. One of my boys got thrown out, and Sifu had to send over a bottle of whiskey to apologise… So, we haven’t had a lot to do with them in awhile, other than around the Chinatown circuit.
91 was the last one I remember, at the Entertainment Centre. Had all the guys in from PNG? I fought for Yau Kung Mun in 87, 80kg runner-up. I think I still have the programme.
Tunks, do I know you? You train with Corney, and up at the Junction with that Russian kid?[/QUOTE]
Mick Spinks is pretty much one of the pioneers of Australian participation in International full-contact CMA. He trained under Cheuk Fai and fought and won in the early 80’s in SE Asian and HK full contact events and later moved into kickboxing (trains Ian Schaffa amongst others). You’d probably remember his exibition match against Benny Urquidez.
I don’t think we’ve met, though I have met a few Yau Kung Mun boys over the years (usually witnessing them brawl in Chinatown against CLF mates, ha ha) plus YKM used to come down and do the lions here. I think I’m a fair bit younger than you - was only in yr 10 in 87. I’m from Sydney originally but did all of my early training in Canberra so it must be a diff Tunks. Kickboxing only officially started in A.C.T in 88 (I was on the first show fighting at a massive 48kgs), before that only the point rubbish. I went to Sydney and entered what were meant to be ‘freestyle’ shows in the early 90’s but they were really just kickboxing and most of the entrants were Zen Do Kai, Zen Chi Ryu and Kyokushin people, apart from Double Dragon. Even by then they started making any lifting and reaping throws illegal.
I’m sorry I did not get the chance to fight in the shows you did as I was too young, but I saw some very entertaining fights (if we are talking about the same events). In hindsight thought, a lot of it was just wild brawling and the opponents were always very badly matched. A lot of bad K.O’s from memory.
Nice one.
(Sorry to get off topic.)
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1047790]Yum-
old school. lol
]
I bet there are a lot of guys who have shared that or a similar experience in their terrible flimsy traditinal training. :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]
Just a shot in the dark but you probably were not one of those guys.
[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1047840]Mick Spinks is pretty much one of the pioneers of Australian participation in International full-contact CMA. He trained under Cheuk Fai and fought and won in the early 80’s in SE Asian and HK full contact events and later moved into kickboxing (trains Ian Schaffa amongst others). You’d probably remember his exibition match against Benny Urquidez.[/QUOTE]
I remember the Benny the Jet exhibition match…only just.
[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1047840]I don’t think we’ve met, though I have met a few Yau Kung Mun boys over the years (usually witnessing them brawl in Chinatown against CLF mates, ha ha) plus YKM used to come down and do the lions here. I think I’m a fair bit younger than you - was only in yr 10 in 87. I’m from Sydney originally but did all of my early training in Canberra so it must be a diff Tunks. Kickboxing only officially started in A.C.T in 88 (I was on the first show fighting at a massive 48kgs), before that only the point rubbish. I went to Sydney and entered what were meant to be ‘freestyle’ shows in the early 90’s but they were really just kickboxing and most of the entrants were Zen Do Kai, Zen Chi Ryu and Kyokushin people, apart from Double Dragon. Even by then they started making any lifting and reaping throws illegal.[/QUOTE]
I knew a LHBF fighter named Tuchs or Tux, heavyweight.
LOL - so you were 12 when the famous YKM/CLF confrontation took place - it was nothing, the legend has grown over the years…
Once they moved from the wood floor to the ring, the rules and everything changed. It was just another fight night after that.
[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1047840]I’m sorry I did not get the chance to fight in the shows you did as I was too young, but I saw some very entertaining fights (if we are talking about the same events). In hindsight thought, a lot of it was just wild brawling and the opponents were always very badly matched. A lot of bad K.O’s from memory.
Nice one.
(Sorry to get off topic.)[/QUOTE]
It was always a mystery exactly what was going on. The masters would stick their heads together and with lots of commotion and gesticulation, decisions would be made, winners chosen, weight classes shifted, matches made and unmade, total anarchy.
Winning was always on your mind, but it was always about representing. You went in against a champ, or a novice, but the best the other school could muster. You were the best your school could muster, and you stood up.
Some fights were just brawls, gassed and hanging onto each other with the second round onward. Others were smashfests with heavy shots, knockdowns and capitulations. But the best were the stylish fighters, who could work their own stuff. and these guys were inevitably the best of the best.
I have a few stills from the 87 event, but all the video is lost. The Yau Kung Mun sifu retired in 89 and who knows where it went, and I hooked up with Sifu Leung through them.
Mick Spinks actually gave Benny Urquidez a run for his money. He was a very decent kickboxer and is now an excellent coach. I don’t know if it’s on youtube anywhere or not but i might ask a mate to upload it.
I know the LHBF Tux your referring too, who used to work the door at Kinselas. Saw him fight a bit, both in and out of the ring.
The younger kids from my generation also tried to carry on the YKM/CLF rivalry as well, though other non-martial thing$ were involved…
Looks like we’ve turned it into an 80’s Aussie reminiscing thread.
[QUOTE=MysteriousPower;1047427]Sorry knifefighter, you do not apply since you are just an mma gorilla…unless you studied a traditional form based martial art sometime… 
Frost, Sanjuro Ronin, I particularly like your posts because you guys did tcma and then went to MMA. You have experience in both and espouse both views combining the best of both worlds to create your own fighting style.
While training in mma has your tcma training come out at all? I was sparring with a guys once and did a fook sau to deflect one of his punches before following up. Later on he was like, “What the hell was that thing you did to my punch?”[/QUOTE]
A good question and one I have been thinking about for a while
Alot of the sensitivity training I did during my hakka, southern and tai chi training came out when I started grappling and doing MMA work, I could read the intentions of similar new guys or a bit better in the clinch very well and lead them into throws especially sweeps and sacrifice throws (I am still big on the lateral drop lol)…but against more experienced guys I found I lacked the overall body sensitivity that wrestling gives you and I was too erect in my stance and I went flying a lot. In the clinch some of the ging work I have learned was very useful to create space in order to strike and I did this instinctively (the shoulder bump to overhand right worked really well for me before even being shown it for example it was simply an extension of what I always did) and I found it natural to smother my opponents strikes whilst in said clinch. For example bicep control I found very natural. And as I become better at the clinch I see opening for my short hand stuff but Thai and standard grappling are my base, anything added to it is a bonus not a mainstay.
On the ground nothing helped lol it was just too alien, although now I am more experienced I find the short power work I did very useful in striking form side control or inside the guard
Standing and working at kick boxing range I found myself using mostly CLF stuff like overhands, long range hooks and uppercuts, my kicks both low and high give guys nightmares but that is as much to do with my korean background as my TCMA. For me on the outside CLF worked the best, my other arts the least, they looked for a bridge or concentrated on covering the centre line and working in close, but most guys these days don’t offer a bridge and don’t worry about the centre line and once in close they grab and grapple not bridge fight
So for me what I took from my TCMA was kicks and longer range strikes, sensitivity and some power issueage and footwork in the clinch, and some striking on the ground. Although I should note that most of this came out after I learned the basics of MMA, in other words MMA and grappling is now my base and what TCMA I use is added on top,
Sets I don’t do and don’t miss, I find most arts are built on a few key movements or seeds and then everything else is pretty much window dressing and a lot of the sets are ways of previous masters to show how they used the seeds/art, and this can be near to useless for those of use not built like them or not fighting in the same era and facing different opponents. if you can get those seeds down, understand there way of creating power and the arts theory in my opinion you are good to go
[QUOTE=B.Tunks;1047860]
The younger kids from my generation also tried to carry on the YKM/CLF rivalry as well, though other non-martial thing$ were involved…[/QUOTE]
The CLF Lion dancing is getting pretty sharp. I saw them field 10 lions at the temple in Glebe.
[QUOTE=Frost;1047878]A good question and one I have been thinking about for a while
On the ground nothing helped lol it was just too alien, although now I am more experienced I find the short power work I did very useful in striking form side control or inside the guard
[/QUOTE]
Do you also find a little pressure point knowledge comes in handy? Pushing or grabbing, not striking?
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1047880]Do you also find a little pressure point knowledge comes in handy? Pushing or grabbing, not striking?[/QUOTE]
To be honest yes and no how’s that for a response:o) yes they came in handy on occasion but most grapplers know them and so they don’t work that well (and they showed me a few more that I didn’t know lol!)
Most good grapplers are used to pressure point attacks and have developed a high degree of tolerance to pain, they are used to people pressing various points on their legs to get them to open guard, they are used to face bars, chokes across various points on the face and neck….. h*ll I have seen guys grind their chins into peoples eye sockets to get a response or ram up hard underneath the nose to get a response, but things that work when drilling hardly ever work in hard rolling/sparring when the adreline is up, and as for in competition forget it, pressure point and pain movements that work in drilling can end up looking very silly when the other guy is prepared to suck it up and takes the pain
One of my major pet peeves is guys who try and use pressure points in a non grappling situation. In other words, the d-bag who teaches standing pressure points in the grab me, now I will apply them scenerio. Completely useless crap is what that is.
I don’t proclaim to be a great grappler but if you do not have control of your opponent how can these techniques work? We used to share a building/school with a Karate class and before our class once we had a guy teaching pressure points, on, gasp, women and children! He than would feed everyone a load of garbage about how he could put down the biggest, toughest opponent. So when some of us stepped up to let him demo on us he backtracked and started making excuses why he wouldn’t. Pressure points can work in some scenirios but you have to have control of your opponent. If you have them in full or side mount, yeah could be pulled off. Not when your standing and grabbing the arm, unless it’s someone 50 lbs lighter and weaker than you.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1047455]I started out in JKD/WC. Like most people in the TMA’s I was pretty brainwashed. The only thing that kept me from getting completely brainwashed and continuing to question things was that I always competed along the way. Competition will always help to keep you focused on reality.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
knifefighter is in idiot